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Vintage Audio (record players, hi-fi etc) Amplifiers, speakers, gramophones and other audio equipment.

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Old 17th Aug 2017, 8:19 pm   #1
barnettiuk
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Default Garrard decks and new records

Friends, can you play modern LPs on a well-maintained Garrard AT6, SP25, 3000 etc (with appropriate stylus obviously) or is it ill-advised and should you stick to 60s/70s pressings that aren't valuable? I hear that eg the BSR deck on a Hacker Talisman GP46 is fine.
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 8:26 pm   #2
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Default Re: Garrard decks and new records

Back in the late 80's my main system used an SP25 MKII. Is was a much better deck than the one I foolishly replaced it with. I had a lot of new LP's at that time which are still in good condition. I wouldn't think twice about playing new records on it if I still had it.

Can't comment on the other decks but I have records that were played on a BSR autochanger (UA25 I think) that still sound fine, though I don't have an audiophile setup and my hearing tops out around 10-11 KHz now.
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 9:02 pm   #3
Craig Sawyers
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Default Re: Garrard decks and new records

If I had a decent record collection, I'd seriously consider a new Rega Planar 1. With arm and cartridge it is less than £250 http://www.analogueseduction.net/reg...EGAPLANAR.html .

The Rega turntables have had a long reputation for excellent performance.
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 9:13 pm   #4
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Default Re: Garrard decks and new records

Records are remarkably robust and no record players were designed to destroy them to my knowledge, so no correctly set up RP should create any problems. Many of my LPs are around 50 years old and have been played on the wide variety of players I have owned over the years. These days I use a Decca London Gold cartridge in a very sophisticated unipivot tonearm, which is very revealing of any inadequacies in vinyl. I didn't always have equipment anything like as posh as that, but they all still sound absolutely fine!
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 9:16 pm   #5
barnettiuk
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Default Re: Garrard decks and new records

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Sawyers View Post
If I had a decent record collection, I'd seriously consider a new Rega Planar 1. With arm and cartridge it is less than £250 http://www.analogueseduction.net/reg...EGAPLANAR.html .

The Rega turntables have had a long reputation for excellent performance.
Thanks for that. I was asking because I have a Hacker Gondolier GP42 and I love the 'valve' sound. I have a DualCS505-2 turntable which presumably I could run into the back of the Hacker?
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Old 18th Aug 2017, 6:34 am   #6
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Default Re: Garrard decks and new records

With a properly maintained Garrard AT6, 3000, etc. there will be no problem. Note "properly maintained"..the auto trip assembly can get sticky with age, especially if it was lubricated by an uninformed servicer, eventually getting stuck but before that, causing drag to the tonearm. Use a cartridge with stylus in good condition, that tracks at around 2 grams or so with the SP25, 3000, AT60, and 2.5-3 grams with an AT6 (the models newer than AT6 had a lower-friction auto trip using Delrin in the trip slider) and you should have no issues, but be sure the auto trip mechanism is properly serviced. The trip pawls should not be lubricated, and should "rattle" freely if you shake the cam wheel in which they are mounted.

The auto trip servicing is not difficult. Refer to

Automatic trip repair on Garrard Autoslim-chassis units
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Old 18th Aug 2017, 10:42 am   #7
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Default Re: Garrard decks and new records

I agree, there's no reason to think these decks will cause damage if correctly set up and fitted with a decent cartridge and stylus in good condition.

Personally I wouldn't use relatively crude decks like these for hifi or transcription use though. You will get much better results using a good deck at 33 than a questionable deck at 16.

You can use your Dual into an input expecting a ceramic cartridge if you use an RIAA preamp. Basic ones are cheap to buy or you can build one from scratch using a dual op-amp and a few other components.
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Old 18th Aug 2017, 11:10 am   #8
Edward Huggins
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Default Re: Garrard decks and new records

Even with a good pre-amp, I doubt if you would hear any real difference by connecting your Dual deck to your Hacker GP42 - especially as the large elliptical speaker has a considerable HF (treble) roll off at about 7kz. As long as your deck mechanism does not cause drag, the stylus is good and the arm and tracking geometry are properly set up, I would play anything on these including 180gram re-issues.
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Old 18th Aug 2017, 5:55 pm   #9
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Default Re: Garrard decks and new records

Edward is right about the speaker, I've converted my GP42 to a magnetic cartridge, which hasn't made a great difference to the sound. But it has made a difference to my peace of mind as I play everything from 78s to 12" singles and the LP I had pressed earlier this year, as the pictures show. If you play modern records that have a lot of bass then you may want to consider changing the cartridge. These Hackers are marvellous.
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Old 18th Aug 2017, 9:36 pm   #10
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Default Re: Garrard decks and new records

I often play my early 1950s vintage LPs on one of my Deccalians of similar period. Tracking weight of that Decca XMS magnetic head is typically around 10g, but I don't notice any record wear, even when played on my Linn/Ortofon system. Was that early vinyl composition more robust I wonder than that of later stereo discs which seem subjectively softer?

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Old 19th Aug 2017, 7:21 am   #11
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Default Re: Garrard decks and new records

We're talking about records decks as if 'they' (intrinsically) are, or can be responsible for damaging records. It's much more to do with the way they are set up. In that respect what damages records are poor (worn, bent/misaligned, dirty) styli, incorrect tracking weight, and incorrect or to a lesser extent, no bias. If any particular record deck has any of those defects, then yes, it can damage a record. I don't believe that records are particularly robust, they can be badly damaged by a single playing on a deck that exhibits a bad example of the above problems. Otherwise, whether it's a 60s record or a modern one, the effects of the above are likely to be just the same and often, 60s discs are more valuable due to their rarity and desirability/collectability.
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Old 19th Aug 2017, 9:21 am   #12
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Default Re: Garrard decks and new records

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartley118 View Post
I often play my early 1950s vintage LPs on one of my Deccalians of similar period. Tracking weight of that Decca XMS magnetic head is typically around 10g, but I don't notice any record wear, even when played on my Linn/Ortofon system. Was that early vinyl composition more robust I wonder than that of later stereo discs which seem subjectively softer?
Hi Martin - if the stylus in your XMS head is .0010" then any wear - if there is any - probably won't be seen by the .0007" in your Ortofon, it should sit lower in the groove out of the track made by the XMS.

There can be significant differences between stereo records cut in the 1960s and modern ones. "Modern" music, including my own which is released digitally, has a much heavier bass content than hitherto. Whilst singles of the 1960s were cut "hot" they were generally mono, later 12" singles cut "hot" were stereo, which is where trouble starts for the suspension of older cartridges. And as they get older the suspension can stiffen. A new stylus assembly on a magnetic cartridge usually includes new suspension, whilst a crystal or ceramic cartridge generally doesn't.

In the photo, you can see the grey lines in the grooves caused by the wear inflicted by a NOS BSR SC12M with a new stylus tracking at 4 grams, after five plays. The LP was unplayed and stamped in January 2017, it's a sacrificial copy. The SP25II has been recently serviced and the linkages underneath replaced with those from a SP25IV, which have less drag. I've now fitted a Stanton 500, tracking at 3 grams and am happier about the wear issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehertz View Post
We're talking about records decks as if 'they' (intrinsically) are, or can be responsible for damaging records. It's much more to do with the way they are set up. In that respect what damages records are poor (worn, bent/misaligned, dirty) styli, incorrect tracking weight, and incorrect or to a lesser extent, no bias. If any particular record deck has any of those defects, then yes, it can damage a record. I don't believe that records are particularly robust, they can be badly damaged by a single playing on a deck that exhibits a bad example of the above problems.
Very true.

Regards
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