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Old 4th Jul 2017, 9:25 pm   #1
Oldcodger
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Default PCB artwork materials.

Prompted by http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/s...d.php?t=137818
I thought it might drag topic OT, hence this new post.
Plenty of discussion on choice of materials and printer.
But can I throw another material into the ring for consideration.
Sheets for laminating. Should ( in theory ) be OK to use in a laser printer, as laser temperature is a lot lower than a laminator.
Any one tried it, or thought of it, as £ shops carry this.

ETA - Just printed a label sheet for my lightbox on laminate sheet- I used PCB EXPRESS to print the control labels as for a bottom layer PCB ( IN REVERSE ), so that print is on underside, and it's come out with no problems and looks good. So this might be another area to explore.
For panel labels, I print in reverse on the underside and then laminate a sheet on the printed side to form a bonded sheet.

Last edited by Oldcodger; 4th Jul 2017 at 9:50 pm. Reason: as per ETA
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Old 4th Jul 2017, 11:06 pm   #2
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Default Re: Pcb artwork materials.

The one way I tried it with ordinary gloss overhead sheets made a pretty crappy negative.
I did discover that matt film works much better and removes the "hairy" edges that even a high quality laser printer creates. You must, of course print on the matt side!! Laminating sheets I as yet have not tried. I am talking about overhead projector sheets which are single sheets, not a double sheet. They cost very similarly to laminating pouches.
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Old 8th Jul 2017, 8:36 pm   #3
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Default Re: PCB artwork materials.

Joe- I've found one nasty with Laminating pouches- larger ones can snag inside ,and when they snag, they tend to start sticking together. They shouldn't as they need higher temperatures to melt, but they can, and do.
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Old 9th Jul 2017, 11:19 am   #4
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Default Re: PCB artwork materials.

I've used the linked-to sheets for laser artwork and can verify its crispness and blackness of resolution. Reasonably priced too:

https://www.esr.co.uk/electronics/pr.../frame_pcb.htm

(click on the 'drafting film' link to see the product)
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Old 9th Jul 2017, 12:41 pm   #5
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Default Re: PCB artwork materials.

I though the laminating pouches had a heat sensitive adhesive coating on the inside. The ones I have are shiny on the outside and have a matt finish on the inside which I thought was an applied coating.
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Old 10th Jul 2017, 9:27 pm   #6
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Default Re: PCB artwork materials.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kellys_eye View Post
I've used the linked-to sheets for laser artwork and can verify its crispness and blackness of resolution. Reasonably priced too:

https://www.esr.co.uk/electronics/pr.../frame_pcb.htm

(click on the 'drafting film' link to see the product)
Bit pricey, when it's available on the place a rule forbids me from mentioning at half the price ( and that includes postage). Also available for inkjet printers.
I'm shying clear of even trying laminate in my laser after a nasty with my cheapo laminater ,where the laminate wound round the roller. I do like the look of that spray, designed to turn ordinary paper clear. Depending on how many sheets it would work on- it might be a good investment.
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Old 11th Jul 2017, 11:42 am   #7
David G4EBT
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Default Re: PCB artwork materials.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldcodger View Post
. I do like the look of that spray, designed to turn ordinary paper clear. Depending on how many sheets it would work on- it might be a good investment.
I don't think you'd be overly impressed. Back in the late 80s when the best that could be had in the way of transparencies was from OHP film from the likes of Pronta Print, with two or maybe three taped together to try to get a reasonable level of opacity of the PCB tracks, I became aware of a spray called Isodraft 'Transparentiser' (made in Germany). The label states: 'Renders lightweight paper sufficiently transparent for the production of dyeline prints and PCBs'. It came in a 300ml aerosol and was jolly expensive, but I thought it would be a good investment.

It sort of worked, after a fashion, but worked no better than spraying the paper with WD40, which was the other idea in vogue at the time. As well as making the paper more transparent, the tracks too become more transparent as you'll see if you look at the right had side of the third pic. You'll notice that the tracks and pads fall well short of being opaque enough for UV exposure. If you don't have high opacity, the exposure time becomes critical. I've tried any number of types of OHP film and printer settings, but the best product by far in my view, which is that I've settled on, is "microporous polyester film" which has a coating on one side which absorbs the ink. I used to buy it from Crafty Computer Paper - a tip top firm when based in Leicester, who seems to have recently been bought out by a firm in Bristol, which now seem to be no more. Nuff said.

However, microporous film is available from Homecrafts who I've mentioned before - a firm who originated as 'Dryad' decades ago who some of us will be old enough to remember supplied craft materials to schools in the 1940s. The film isn't too expensive at £6.99 for 4 A4 sheets plus £2.95 post. It's described thus:

• High quality polyester film for inkjet printers
• The milky, micro-porous surface absorbs inks to create a dense image
• Specifically designed for making stencils for screen printing

http://www.homecrafts.co.uk/acetate-film

I've attached a pic of the front and back of the can of trasparentiser that I still have (after more than thirty years!), and a sheet of paper I've just sprayed. You can see that it does work to an extent.

The other paper you'll often see mentioned for PCB artwork is 'vegetal paper', which is the name people in other countries than the UK to what we call 'tracing paper'. I've tried that, with limited success.

I'm sure that much depends on the actual printer in use. My former HP Photosmart inkjet printer used to print perfectly onto normal OHP film, but it died on me.

Hope that's of interest.
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Old 23rd Jul 2017, 9:41 pm   #8
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Default Re: PCB artwork materials.

David - had a look at Homecraft site, and it's now £6.99 for 10 sheets, with a 20% discount on first order if you sign up for their newssheet. For those interested- WAIT for the conformation e mail giving the code ,as it's not automatically given .
Printerwise - with the sheets I got from E BAY, I've noted my settings on a Epson WF2010 (shows up as an Epson 5955F2 (WF2010 SERIES), most possibly as I use it networked to save on USB ports).

For A5 paper -I set it as ( on main)
Paper size -A5
Paper = Epson Matte
Quality =high
Colour
And set other options in Options to reflect ,i.e ,paper size & quality.

( Passing on what I've found to (hopefully) help others as others have helped me )
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Old 28th Jul 2017, 9:44 pm   #9
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Default Re: PCB artwork materials.

Homecraft order arrived ,by courier, not Post. 10 sheets.
Additional thoughts on resist removal- I've tried using Sodium Carbonate to remove a spoilt sheet of resist from a board, and then thought on- why not use a strong solution to remove resist after etching- it's a lot cheaper than Acetone, and a lot easier.
Expose- develop, etch and then use a ( say x5 solution) to remove resist from copper.
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Old 1st Aug 2017, 8:53 pm   #10
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Default Re: PCB artwork materials.

Continued this in here as opposed to "Where to get" , as it's more of a continuation of the thread.
Ref David's suggestion of sheet in #7

Today, when in HOBBYCRAFT shop ( http://www.hobbycraft.co.uk/), I found clear acetate sheet suitable for either laser or inkjet printing.
Inkjet one is "STIX2 A4 clear acetate sheet" and comes in a pack of 5 sheets OF a4 SIZE for £3 .
Laser one is similar but it's 10 sheets for £3
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Old 2nd Aug 2017, 2:56 pm   #11
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Default Re: PCB artwork materials.

The OHP acetates that I used to buy, which worked excellently with my HP Photosmart printer, were the 'Q-Connect brand', till my HP printer failed and I replaced it in 2010 with an Epson. I've still got UV masks that I printed onto those sheets on my HP printer up to 2010 and they're still perfect. If you look at the very few critical reviews at this link, you'll see that they all related to Epson printers:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/INKJET-CLEA.../dp/B000KJO7BO

They're presently £13.50 for 50 - 27p each. (Back in 2010, I paid £15.00).

Really, I think it's all down to how the particular printer copes.

There's no doubt that creating a completely opaque mask is one of the most critical aspects of successful home-brew PCB production.

Have fun!
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Old 2nd Aug 2017, 10:53 pm   #12
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Default Re: PCB artwork materials.

David- simply letting folks know about another source of printable acetate for iNKET. Better value as there's no postage ( or courier ,as Homecraft use a courier) charges. Hobby craft shops are in most shopping malls/ towns.
All the sheets that I've got on line work well with my my Epson set on matt. But it's an Epson WF 2010 high quality printer and I set it on HIGH QUALITY print, meaning max ink on print. .
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