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Vintage Telephony and Telecomms Vintage Telephones, Telephony and Telecomms Equipment |
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26th Jul 2017, 9:23 am | #1 |
Pentode
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Rotherham, South Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 152
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Where would you even buy a VoIP ATA that's pulse dialing capable?
I've searched eBay and Google Products but the only HandyTones I can find that seem pulse capable are used ones for sale in the USA!
Any ideas? |
26th Jul 2017, 9:41 am | #2 |
Dekatron
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Edinburgh, UK.
Posts: 3,274
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Re: Where would you even buy a VoIP ATA that's pulse dialing capable?
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26th Jul 2017, 9:44 am | #3 | |
Heptode
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Flintshire, UK.
Posts: 707
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Re: Where would you even buy a VoIP ATA that's pulse dialing capable?
Quote:
Ian |
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26th Jul 2017, 9:56 am | #4 | |
Heptode
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Flintshire, UK.
Posts: 707
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Re: Where would you even buy a VoIP ATA that's pulse dialing capable?
Quote:
Cost of two Dialgizmos (over £60.00) plus an ATA such as a Linksys PAP2 at say£15 is not far off twice the price of a brand new HT502 at£44 inc VAT - both options providing two lines. Dialgizmo has the problem that you have to dial the digits one at a time and let it send the DTMF before dialling the next digit. If you dial the digits any faster, you 'beat' the system. You can't use them with a telephone/PBX that has 'stored' numbers either. |
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26th Jul 2017, 1:33 pm | #5 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK
Posts: 6,130
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Re: Where would you even buy a VoIP ATA that's pulse dialing capable?
HT502s on Amazon from £44.67 including postage (the one at £28.07 works out at £44.68 once you add in postage).
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Mending is better than Ending (cf Brave New World by Aldous Huxley) |
26th Jul 2017, 11:27 pm | #6 |
Pentode
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Dunstable, Bedfordshire, UK.
Posts: 140
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Re: Where would you even buy a VoIP ATA that's pulse dialing capable?
I would imagine, in addition to this, some sort of structured cabling solution would be required for a phone in each room?
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27th Jul 2017, 12:00 am | #7 |
Dekatron
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 18,724
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Re: Where would you even buy a VoIP ATA that's pulse dialing capable?
It doesn't have to be structured. It can just be multiple phone sockets wired in parallel, in the time-honoured way.
Graham. G3ZVT |
2nd Aug 2017, 3:07 pm | #8 | |
Pentode
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Rotherham, South Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 152
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Re: Where would you even buy a VoIP ATA that's pulse dialing capable?
Quote:
Just need to get my 746 sorted. I thought I'd got it wired up correctly but when I connected it to the BT line I just got an error purr on the line (don't know the name for the sound but it's just a flat constant tone) and when I try to call my own number with the phone connected it's engaged. I'm guessing I must have wired something wrong in my excitement... will re-check! |
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2nd Aug 2017, 5:36 pm | #9 |
Dekatron
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 18,724
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Re: Where would you even buy a VoIP ATA that's pulse dialing capable?
If you are getting Number Unobtainable Tone (NU) when you lift the handset, it sounds like you have bypassed the hook-switch somehow. Try this, hold the earpiece to your ear then plug in the phone, now do you hear dialtone?
Graham G3ZVT. |
2nd Aug 2017, 8:39 pm | #10 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 18,724
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Re: Where would you even buy a VoIP ATA that's pulse dialing capable?
Quote:
Pellseinydd mentioned that the Grandstream HT 502 supported LD dialling on the FXS ports, I don't think the HT 503 does though. I've had a quick look at the manual and can find no evidence that it's supported. The references to "Loop Current Disconnect" refer to a method of indicating to a fax or telephone answering device that the calling party has hung up, and not the dialling method. |
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3rd Aug 2017, 9:37 am | #11 | |
Pentode
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Rotherham, South Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 152
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Re: Where would you even buy a VoIP ATA that's pulse dialing capable?
Quote:
Anecdotal references on forums found via Google searches show that the 503 does seem to support LD dialling like its sister product the 502. Fingers crossed. |
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3rd Aug 2017, 1:55 pm | #12 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK
Posts: 6,130
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Re: Where would you even buy a VoIP ATA that's pulse dialing capable?
Quote:
It will be good to have confirmation of this.
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3rd Aug 2017, 10:12 pm | #13 |
Triode
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, UK.
Posts: 49
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Re: Where would you even buy a VoIP ATA that's pulse dialing capable?
Hi.
I have a Grandstream GXW-4008 which is the "big brother" of the HT502. It uses the same firmware file so I would suspect it is the same basic hardware, just with extra ports. It is not documented, but it does support pulse dialling. It is more fussy than a BT line about dial speed though. By the look of it the HT502 can still be bought here - http://www.voipon.co.uk/grandstream-...503-p-620.html Last edited by WayneL74; 3rd Aug 2017 at 10:14 pm. Reason: spelling mistake |
3rd Aug 2017, 10:31 pm | #14 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 18,724
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Re: Where would you even buy a VoIP ATA that's pulse dialing capable?
Quote:
https://forums.grandstream.com/forum...?topic=15948.0 Seems to be first hand experience of people who know what they are talking about, so hopefully can be considered authoritative. To sum up it appears the 503 does work, but it's fussy about the Pulse Repetition Frequency, and/or the mark-space ratio. Perhaps these idiosyncrasies apply equally to the 502? This may also explain why Grandstream didn't document it. My guess now is it will work fine. <EDIT> This is an alarm company implying that HT502, HT503, HT701 all work with old panels containing pulse auto-diallers. http://www.ipalarms.net/voip/grandstream.html Graham. G3ZVT Last edited by Graham G3ZVT; 3rd Aug 2017 at 10:54 pm. Reason: More good news. |
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4th Aug 2017, 9:27 am | #15 |
Heptode
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Flintshire, UK.
Posts: 707
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Re: Where would you even buy a VoIP ATA that's pulse dialing capable?
I and some others on both CNet and the Minor Railways ETD VoIP networks have been using both the HT502 and HT503 with pulse dialling for several years.
Electronic phones which produce pulse dialling (old PO Tele 756 etc, those BT switchable pulse/tone dialling and switchable engineers handsets) seem to work without problem. However 'mechanical' dials can often have problems. This appears to be due to the fact that pulse dialling in the USA has a different specification to that in the UK. Both the US and UK dialling spec is 10 pulses per second but that is where similarity ends. UK pulse dialling is based on loop disconnect digits at the rate 10 (+/- 1) pulses per second where the ratio of the break period is 67 +5%, -4 % of the overall pulse period (i.e. 63% to 72% of the 9 to 11 pps). The old GPO Strowger exchanges would accept roughly 8 to 12 pps but the dials should have been adjusted to the 10 (+/- 1) pps. However the US pulses are 60% (+/- ?) break. Thus the US tolerances overlapped with the UK tolerances and provided a UK dial was correctly adjusted within the UK spec (i.e. as the electronic pulse diallers are), it will work with the ATAs made to the US spec. One way around the problem we've found is to reduce the gap between the pulsing contacts slightly on the mechanical dials - thus increasing very slightly the 'make period' to bring it more into line with the US specification. Grandstream neither mention pulse dialling in their literature or don't know what you are talking about when you contact them. You have to bear in mind that those working for Grandstream have probably never come across pulse dialling in everyday life. Thoughts are that pulse dialling was in the 'spec' in the early days of VoIP ATAs and somehow it has survived in the Grandstream firmware. Ensure that your Grandstream ATA is not set up to automatically upgrading the firmware if it works with pulse dialling. Digium (and their founder Mark Spencer who developed the open source Asterisk VoIP PBX program) produced an ATA which accepted pulse dialling over twelve years ago but dropped it over ten years ago. Other than that they work OK with pulse dialling and old vintage telephones. Those of us connected to CNet - the VoIP replica of the UK network in GPO days - have plenty of experience with various ATAs, having been playing with them since the early days of CNet back in 2005/6. Ian CNet 0352 2345 MR ETD 053-6278 GW4BTW |
7th Aug 2017, 11:55 pm | #16 |
Pentode
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Rotherham, South Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 152
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Re: Where would you even buy a VoIP ATA that's pulse dialing capable?
Ian, this sounds interesting - I shall have to look into this. Thank you. Sounds like a modification well worth doing.
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