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Vintage Amateur and Military Radio Amateur/military receivers and transmitters, morse, and any other related vintage comms equipment.

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Old 8th Apr 2017, 2:53 pm   #1
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Default Morse key: new vs vintage

Hi all,

I'm looking to buy my first CW key, which i would like to use for both training and for real operation when I eventually get the Foundation Licence.

For my first purchase, and having zero experience, I was thinking of buying a new straight key from a specialist store. However I've noticed a new basic straight key ranges from about £40 onwards. I have no problem shelling out £40 or more, but I've also seen some vintage keys to be had on eBay for less than a tenner.

Only judging from the pictures, it looks like those old keys were more robust than the newer counterparts.

So my question is: what should I look for in a vintage key? Are there any pitfalls I should avoid? I really like the look of those vintage keys!
 
Old 8th Apr 2017, 3:31 pm   #2
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Default Re: Morse key: new vs vintage

You can't beat for reliability, and when adjusted, feel, the good old 8A 'key, wireless telegraph' such as http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-MO...-/272619274590 (I think this is allowed in the rules). You could get one for nothing (or very little, can't have mine!) if you look around. Personally I thing 'posh' keys are only a blinged up switch, nice as they are.

Screw an 8A key to your operating desk, solid as you like.
 
Old 8th Apr 2017, 4:29 pm   #3
kellys_eye
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Default Re: Morse key: new vs vintage

Whilst training to be a radio operator (merchant marine) I attended college where the morse code classes had various makes/models of key fitted and, since that time, have used many other keys on ships and of my own purchase.

In no case did I ever feel as if one was better than another - the feel and movement comes mainly from your own input to it. Perhaps the greatest 'noticable' difference was in the KNOB !!! I preferred keys that had a 'plate' under the knob whereas others preferred none - each to their own.

Just get a key - and you'll find you adapt to its peculiarities (if it has any) regardless of what you get. The acid test is in how your own manipulation of the key creates the characters. Some people have a 'smooth' approach whilst others stutter and/or run one character into another etc. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the key itself!

I pride myself in being complimented many times 'on air' for the clarity of my keying - some mistaking my manual keying efforts for bug keying!

In latter years I really did move to using a side-swiper (squeeze key) due to stiffness in my wrist (ganglions) and the electronics made character creation a lot less thoughtful - in other words made life easier!
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 5:15 pm   #4
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Default Re: Morse key: new vs vintage

When I was learning morse , it was impressed on me to go nowhere near a key until I could receive to a reasonable standard. That way the brain knows what cw should sound like and it makes it much easier to send good morse.
Good advice?
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 5:28 pm   #5
G4YVM David
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Default Re: Morse key: new vs vintage

Barraman speaks wisely. Dont even touch a key until you can read cw at some spead. Not fast, even 5 or 6wpm...buyt if you start sending before you know what morse soumds like youll just learn to send your own peculiar code.

Thereafter any key will do...youll find favourites of course, but most are good. The 8amp work well as do old brass ones. Try to find a tatty one and refurbish it. Its fun and satisfying

David
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 5:41 pm   #6
GW3OQK Andrew
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Default Re: Morse key: new vs vintage

Ottavio, I like the WT8Amp key and used it to pass morse test at 25 wpm. However, I have 3 here that have a worn bearing. Even the one I use on air isn't perfect. I bought a Marconi 365A and it too had worn sleeve bearing, which I replaced with roller bearings and it is excellent. Those are very old keys. I bought a nearly new Kent key from Ebay and that is good. To start learning to send with a faulty key will do you no favours at all.

Barraman gives good advice. Here's where you can learn what morse should sound like. http://www.smrcc.org.uk/Morse/morse.htm In the old days we had plenty of interesting commercial traffic to learn from.
73, Andrew
PS Personally I find a disc under the knob is a nuisance.
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 5:53 pm   #7
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Default Re: Morse key: new vs vintage

There are lots and lots of different keys, and lots and lots of opinions.

Learn to read first. The advice above is good.
You will learn to adapt to whatever you start with.
Don't assume you buy one key and that's it. You will refine your opinions over time.
Most experienced amateur operators switch to an iambic paddle, some use a keyboard.
What suits me may not suit you.

The 8A key is quite good quality and cheap. There are imports of Czech army keys which are very good quality and definitely bargains. There are works of art; Piero Begali is a nice guy and makes some lovely keys and paddles, but the amount of work involved makes them expensive. Robert Kent's products are very well built, do the job and are affordable.

There is a design using a flexing leaf as a combined pivot and spring. Versions include the grey cased NATO/Navy one with the big black gap adjuster knob stuck out the top, the 'Swedish Key' and a version on a slate base was done by GW Keys.

The key that lives on my rig is an old RAF groundstation 'Type D' key. nothing to look at but it feels comfortable, along with a 'Kent' Iambic paddle. Many other keys just stay on my shelf

Look around, try things. Hang on to your money for a while.

You could always make one if you wanted.

David
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 6:06 pm   #8
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Default Re: Morse key: new vs vintage

You enter this minefield at your own risk!

My advice for what its worth....

Don't buy one just yet, lots of good advice here, learn to read first, sending will come more naturaly afterwards.

This guys CD has helped me relearn CW properly, if only it had been about when I needed it years ago

http://www.k7qo.net/

Download burn & copy to a cheapo mp3 player, read his instructions on the CD too, just because its "free" dont't think it's not worth it.

My current key is a german Junkers, wish I'd know about them years ago, look online for opinions.

T
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 9:14 pm   #9
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Default Re: Morse key: new vs vintage

Agree with Barraman and David G4YVM.

You will gain the rhythm from listening so put the key away and concentrate on that until you are receiving well at a decent speed. Then the sending will come naturally and you will be more likely to end up with a good 'fist'.

Many moons ago I used to provide practice morse sessions for learners and, actually, it is not easy to send nice morse slowly.

My favourite key is an ex-admiralty 'straight' key I bought at a rally for six old pence. One of the best tanners I ever spent. I like it because it is incredibly sturdy and I can set a very small gap.
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 9:42 pm   #10
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Default Re: Morse key: new vs vintage

I used to teach Morse to radio amateurs, and I echo the previous advice about not trying to send code until you can read it. That way, you will automatically replicate what proper Morse sounds like.

Personally, for sending 'slow' Morse at 12-15 WPM, I preferred a key with plenty of mass in the arm. This encourages the use of the correct keying technique, flexing the hand at the wrist not the knuckles or finger joints, and thus avoiding the stacatto chattering effect that sometimes comes from a lighter key. I also prefer a key with a large skirt below the knob, much less effort to grip as the third or even fourth finger assists with the keying action.

Why not visit a ham radio rally later this summer and try out a few keys?
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Old 9th Apr 2017, 1:11 pm   #11
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Default Re: Morse key: new vs vintage

Thank you all for your precious advice. I'll focus on learning to copy first. It's a long road but I hope I'll get there.
 
Old 9th Apr 2017, 3:38 pm   #12
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Default Re: Morse key: new vs vintage

Ottavio,

Don't take it too seriously. Don't try to force yourself. Don't try to measure the speed you can receive at. Don't worry about progress.

*Do* be firm with yourself about regular practice. Speed will come, naturally and painlessly in its own time. If you try to push it, it takes longer.

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Old 9th Apr 2017, 4:20 pm   #13
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Default Re: Morse key: new vs vintage

I learnt morse by using something like http://www.g4fon.net/CW%20Trainer.htm . 5 to 15 minutes a day at lunch break. Oddly I did it it improve my recognition of NDBs slow morse, it took a while to slow down!

And... I did know someone many years ago that could read RTTY in his head. I bet that took a while to master.
 
Old 9th Apr 2017, 4:35 pm   #14
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Default Re: Morse key: new vs vintage

Wish I could get the morse Alphabet into my thick head as I have a collection of morse keys here from 1800,s to a Kent that came for a very fair £30 previously used in a Titanic production in London.
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Old 9th Apr 2017, 7:29 pm   #15
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Default Re: Morse key: new vs vintage

Just keep gently practising, it'll come slowly. Try to recognise the letters as individual sounds. Do not try to memorise "N is A backwards" that will just slow you down. You want to just absorb Morse and let it build naturally by familiarisation.

What helped me a lot was a steady feed of very dirty jokes sent in Morse and recorded on tape.

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Old 9th Apr 2017, 8:18 pm   #16
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Default Re: Morse key: new vs vintage

Yes, read first. Luckily I "forgot" the code that I was sending (to myself) before trying to read it. A 40 year gap helped! Don't think about it, when I hear (for example) dah di dah dit, I don't think dah di dah dit a C just appears in my head. I am not very proficient at morse still short words pop up as words in my head, "the", "to" etc.. It is a great skill to learn and an immense pride, even if it is just to oneself (as all prides should be).

One thing the Koch method does is letting (telling to) you ignore an unrecognised character, so you don't miss the next few.

When I started (second time around) I thought this is impossible, I was wrong.

BTW my advice on a key was based on me finding my old one (post 2), still working and easy to use.
 
Old 9th Apr 2017, 8:21 pm   #17
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Default Re: Morse key: new vs vintage

I tried to learn in groups of letters but ended up remembering only in that order.
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Old 10th Apr 2017, 1:52 am   #18
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Default Re: Morse key: new vs vintage

As a student learning code we were told (as a class) to 'learn ALL the letters by Monday or you're out!' - this was on a Friday, so we at least had the weekend to do it.

Come the Monday we were tasked to write the alphabet out and, true to his word, our lecturer threw those that hadn't learned it out of the class! They were only allowed back after they did what they were instructed to do and, since we were all on cadetships at the time, they all duly made the effort and were back the next day....

Harsh - but effective

The human mind can be VERY effective at recall if it has the right incentive - it can even be taught to be better than you consider it to be already. Mrs kellys_eye is amazed that I can forget to lock the door at night but can recall five different 16-digit-random-mixed-character-number-passwords without batting an eyelid.....
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Old 10th Apr 2017, 8:47 am   #19
G4YVM David
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Default Re: Morse key: new vs vintage

Actually learning letters by eye isnt such good practice i nthink...though thats how i did it too.

Its not such a long road either...ten minutes a day EVERY DAY and youll be reading code far sooner than you ever imagined. Its not so hard...those who tell you otherwise have forked tongues. But it takes dedication ��

Good luck...it is worth it. A far more involved mode than ssb or digital. Digital. Ha. Can i have a qsl card for this email please??
D
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Old 10th Apr 2017, 9:24 am   #20
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Default Re: Morse key: new vs vintage

I have just restored (cleaned/polished) my 25 year old Kent key. The roller bearings
reduce the friction and it has a smooth feel. However before that I did completely
restore an old Swedish (Pettersson, 1970's) key which cost me £0, and that also has a
positive feel ; here the "bearing" is a phosphor bronze spring.
I would suggest receiving is rather more difficult than sending for most novices.
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