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Vintage Television and Video Vintage television and video equipment, programmes, VCRs etc. |
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25th Mar 2017, 10:58 pm | #1 |
Nonode
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Redruth, Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 2,562
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50 Years of Colour
Hi.
I remember reading an interesting set of articles in December 1977 issue of Television magazine entitled 'Ten Years of Colour'. This covered the decision to adopt the PAL system rather than NTSC. Development of the CTVs from a manufacturer's perspective and commentary from the repair trade was also covered. It's now hard to believe that the start of colour transmissions proper will be 50 years this December 2nd. It would be good to see some of these early colour sets displaying pictures on this anniversary milestone. I'm sure many forum members will celebrating this event with their sets. I wonder if there are any working Bush CTV25 sets with the 25kV EHT overwind like the set depicted in the Television article above? Regards Symon |
26th Mar 2017, 2:16 am | #2 |
Hexode
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Cambridge, Cambs. UK.
Posts: 469
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Re: 50 Years of Colour
Cant see an article or anything depicted above?
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30th Mar 2017, 6:17 pm | #3 |
Heptode
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK.
Posts: 823
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Re: 50 Years of Colour
I can't see the picture either!
The CTV 25 was the first CTV I worked on, when they were new! I have happy memories of being a very wanted TV engineer, especially during the Wimbledon tennis fortnight. One customer who had a few problems, especially with the Line output stage, paid me extra to spend a whole day, (with a free lunch!) just in case the TV developed a fault. In those days, I used to carry a 'scope, Philips 'Rainbow' generator and a van full of parts, - repairing to component level in the customer's house. Happy days. Dave. |
31st Mar 2017, 2:24 pm | #4 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: North Wales, UK.
Posts: 6,882
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Re: 50 Years of Colour
And a fire extinguisher?
I think the OP was just directing us to the issue in question, though I can't find that magazine in my collection. Perhaps some kind contributor (Keith perhaps) could post a scan of it? I very much doubt any of the Mk1s survive. Most of the companies that rented these changed them to the Mk3 line tower so they could sleep at nights. Now I've just got eight months to renovate my basket case Thorn 2000 - and my even basketer case G6! Glyn |
31st Mar 2017, 4:48 pm | #5 |
Nonode
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South Bradford, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 2,571
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Re: 50 Years of Colour
Challenge accepted Glyn, so here's the cover and the three articles from the December 77 issue.
December was the official start but colour had been broadcast since July 77 with the broadcasting of Wimbledon. Around that time I saw my first colour TV in the window of the MEB showroom in Kings Heath Birmingham. It's amazing how fascinating Test card F could be if you'd never seen colour TV before Keith |
31st Mar 2017, 4:57 pm | #6 |
Hexode
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Rustington, West Sussex, UK.
Posts: 381
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Re: 50 Years of Colour
July 1967 was the first trade test films on BBC2..
Bob.
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31st Mar 2017, 7:53 pm | #7 | |
Heptode
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Durham, County Durham, UK.
Posts: 640
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Re: 50 Years of Colour
Quote:
John. Last edited by jayceebee; 31st Mar 2017 at 7:55 pm. Reason: typo |
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2nd Apr 2017, 1:30 pm | #8 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Near Swindon, North Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 3,595
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Re: 50 Years of Colour
Here's a December 1967 ad from the Radio Times, extolling the virtues of Murphy (dual standard) colour TV sets.
Then, one from Pye, in October 1968. Last edited by dazzlevision; 2nd Apr 2017 at 1:50 pm. |
3rd Apr 2017, 1:52 pm | #9 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: North Wales, UK.
Posts: 6,882
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Re: 50 Years of Colour
Hi
I don't remember the Decca CTV25 being particularly likely to burst into flames. I think Bush's mistake was to encapsulate the overwind in pitch. Decca and Philips used an epoxy plastic which just got hot when it shorted. I'm not sure what the diffreence between the Bush Mk1 and Mk2 was. Both had the full array of valves (PL, PY, DY802, GY501 and PD500). The Mk3 is distinguishable by its black case. The PD500 is still present, but a quadrupler is used. Perhaps surprisingly, this component didn't seem to mind the load imposed by the shunt stabiliser, though the overwind often did. I think there were some unofficial designs to remove the PD500 from circuit with little effect on the pictures. The M3 line tower was introduced for the 19" CTV162 and was then used in the CTV167 and the rare CTV174D. Decca continued with the full array of valves and EHT overwind but for the single standard version (CTV22) pared things down considerably to include a tripler. I think the last TV to include a PD500 was the single-standard Philips G6. Glyn |
3rd Apr 2017, 2:10 pm | #10 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Near Swindon, North Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 3,595
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Re: 50 Years of Colour
And here's a picture of the rare Murphy CV2210D (not the BUSH CTV174D!) in a January 1969 Radio Times (the original ad is in black & white, perhaps to save money?).
Last edited by dazzlevision; 3rd Apr 2017 at 2:40 pm. Reason: Correction. |
3rd Apr 2017, 5:20 pm | #11 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: North Wales, UK.
Posts: 6,882
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Re: 50 Years of Colour
Ah - Murphy's Constant Colour Circuit against Bush's IC Colour Lock! Either way it was an SL901. The original ICs had a big handlebar style heatsink coming out of the chip and was mounted on the 'wrong; (print) side of the board. The first one I replaced had had the original removed, so (quite reasonably I thought) I put the new heatsink-less IC on the component side where it seemed to belong. Ten quid down the drain...
Glyn |
13th Apr 2017, 12:25 am | #12 |
Triode
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Harrogate, North Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 34
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Re: 50 Years of Colour
Goodness me these posts really get the old memory going!
I worked for a Bush dealer and well remember the very first colour tv arriving a ctv 25 when we unpacked it it did not work the 2amp fuse on the psu was blown! we replaced it and all was well. Strangely never had to replace this fuse again. I well remember dashing around to our in those days well heeled customers to carry out the fire mod. i.e. fitting gauze under and over the loptx to prevent the spread of fire should it ignite! On the whole those first sets were fairly reliable. Just another thought when we went all 625 who remembers making a bit of bonus changing keyplates on the multi band tuner? Happy Days John |
13th Apr 2017, 8:43 am | #13 |
Nonode
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: 1966-1976 Coverack in Cornwall and Helston Cornwall. 1976-present Bristol/Bath area.
Posts: 2,965
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Re: 50 Years of Colour
I am sure I have got that copy of the Television mag from 1977 celebrating 10years of colour. I will take a look for it over the holiday weekend.
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13th Apr 2017, 9:43 pm | #14 |
Nonode
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Redruth, Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 2,562
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Re: 50 Years of Colour
Hi.
Considering the range of first generation Colour TVs available, it would be interesting to make comparisons regarding: 1. Ease of servicing 2. Overall performance 3. LOPTx reliability 4. Generall reliability 5. Cabinet aesthetics/appearance The sets in question are: i. Baird 700 ii. BRC 2000 iii. Bush CTV25 iv. Decca CTV25 v. GEC 2028/2030 vi. ITT CVC1 vii Philips G6 viii Pye CT70 From my own limited experience on these early sets the best for servicing had to be the BRC 2000 and Pye CT70 and the worst was the Decca CTV25. Best performance has to go to the Philips G6 and GEC 2028 though the Pye CT70 was good. Probably the BRC 2000 LOPTx was the most reliable out of these sets. The set with the best overall reliability is tricky to say the least but I think the GEC was pretty good and strangely the G6 was good despite it's complexity. The best looking set that's difficult to say. I quite liked the GEC with it's light coloured mask around the Mullard Panorama CRT. It would be good to hear others opinions on these first generation sets. Regards Symon Last edited by Philips210; 13th Apr 2017 at 9:45 pm. Reason: typo |
14th Apr 2017, 4:25 pm | #15 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: North Wales, UK.
Posts: 6,882
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Re: 50 Years of Colour
That's a pretty good analysis, I'd say, Symon.
When I started the duals were pretty long in the tooth. I taught myself as a teenager on an elderly ex-ental dual-standard G6 with bits missing! Got it going though and it carried on for some years. Odd that the GEC produced very good pictures despite having no shunt stabiliser and a pretty conventional circuit. Performance wise, in my opinion the best was the G6 followed by the 2028. Then came the Thorn 2000, Decca CTV25 and the Pye in no particular order. Bringing up the rear was the Bush, I'm afraid. I didn't see a CVC1 (in fact few people did!) and the Baird was a rare beast outside the rental shops. For servicing the Pye was nicely laid out as was the Bush, but top of the class was the Thorn. Unfortunately it was too easy to slip panels in and out leading to the dreaded solder across the edge connectors! The GEC was fine as long as you'd worked on the double sided print before. If Decca had invested in longer wires then the CTV 25 wouldn't have been too bad. You soon got used to the smell of soldering iron on insulation when repairing a G6! With the (dis)honourable exception of the Pye, the single-standard versions of these sets were more reliable and gave better results, although Bush, Thorn and Decca decided to go back to the drawing board for the single-standards and GEC's 2040 bore only a passing resemblance to the 2028. The only sets I personally remember from this era making it to the Eighties under private non-technical ownership were the Thorn 2000 and the Philips G6, the latter in single-standard form. I do remember LLJ commenting on a G6 a customer of his was using well into the middle of the decade! Glyn |
23rd Apr 2017, 12:53 am | #16 |
Triode
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Harrogate, North Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 34
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Re: 50 Years of Colour
In those early days the company I worked for sold anything they could lay their hands on.
The main thing I remember was the size and weight of the early 25inch sets. Particularly Philips consoles! With regard to reliability none were anything like today's electronic offerings. I think customers tended to be rather critical because they had paid such a lot for their sets. I remember one little set a Sobell / GEC which considering its rat's nest wiring was a cracker and featured the odd feature that when colour was been received a beacon lit on the front! We had a lot of these and they worked well. We were not into Thorn sets on a big scale and used to struggle with 2000 and 3000 sets. I suppose we still had a soft spot for valves at that time. John |
24th Apr 2017, 6:32 pm | #17 |
Heptode
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK.
Posts: 823
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Re: 50 Years of Colour
Glyn's mention of the GEC's and their double-sided print brought back long forgotten nightmares. We had a lot of the dual-standard GEC ((Known in our workshops as
GEC= 'Great Eap of Crap'!) I lost count of how many we had with 'through-plated holes' that weren't. Picture quality was surprisingly good though. I* also remember soldering up the system switches on these, when eventually all three channels were available on 625 lines. Made them more reliable. We had one showroom burnt down due to a time-switch that failed to turn off at around midnight. This was on a Baird 25". It was later proven that after the Epilogue, when the transmitter shut down, the set obviously lost line-sync. The result was that the line-speed altered sufficiently to over drive the output stage and the LOPT overheated. Dave. |