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Old 4th Jul 2017, 10:45 pm   #1
G0HZU_JMR
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Default Dremel 4000 Engraver

Can anyone offer advice or experience wrt the Dremel 4000, especially the external engraving tool option? I have had this Dremel 4000 for about a year but never used it. It was a freebie gift/reward via work and I've finally opened the box today because I want to try engraving some of my tools and equipment.

In the picture below you can see the Dremel 4000 and also my 'poor man's Dremel' that I bought from Maplin a very long time ago. It's the red drill in the red box in the back of the picture below. This is a crude but meaty 12V PCB drill that can also take rotary tools and it has served me well as a rotary grinder. But it's no good for serious/accurate engraving.

So I finally have a need to play with the Dremel. I've watched a few Youtube videos that show the engraver in action but I don't know which tool is best to use for engraving and what the usual traps are. I know I have to wear proper safety goggles when using it but are there any gotchas with the external engraving tool accessory? I don't want to break it on the first day...

Thanks in advance for any replies
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Old 4th Jul 2017, 11:04 pm   #2
David G4EBT
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Default Re: Dremel 4000 Engraver

I've got a Dremel 4000, which is the only model that goes down to 5,000RPM - most others and their 'clones' go from 10,000 - 30,000, which is too fast for some applications, certainly for the 15mm sanding arbors. I've never used it for engraving tools, and wouldn't personally do so as I think it's not a good application, the tool being rotary. Engravers aren't rotary, they're percussive, akin to a 'pneumatic drill, in that the tip doesn't rotate - it's a sharpened 'pencil point' tungsten carbide tip. They're not expensive and usually the impact of the strokes is adjustable dependant on the depth of engraving you desire. They often come with number and letter templates. EG:

https://www.cromwell.co.uk/shop/hand..._campaign=Hand

Sorry if this seems a bit obtuse, rather like the guy who asked 'Can you give me directions to the railway station please?', and received the unhelpful answer: 'If I were you, I wouldn't have started from here'.

(I have used my Dremel to cut holes and notches in glass meter dials using diamond burrs).
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Old 4th Jul 2017, 11:33 pm   #3
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Default Re: Dremel 4000 Engraver

Thanks for the info about the alternative/better engraver. Maybe I'll go down that route instead if it's going to give better results for just £12. I had a look through the box of tools that came with the Dremel and there's not much there I think I would ever use. I bought a set of rotary tools with the Maplin drill many years ago and these are much smaller/finer and more suitable for the stuff I do. But they don't fit in the Dremel chuck!

There doesn't seem to be a fine engraving tool tip in the Dremel kit so I'm going to have to buy some suitable tool tips if I want to try using the engraver head. I'm not really that skilled at stuff like this but am willing to try a few experiments.
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Old 5th Jul 2017, 11:57 am   #4
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Default Re: Dremel 4000 Engraver

Quote:
Originally Posted by G0HZU_JMR View Post
There doesn't seem to be a fine engraving tool tip in the Dremel kit so I'm going to have to buy some suitable tool tips if I want to try using the engraver head. I'm not really that skilled at stuff like this but am willing to try a few experiments.
I think that you probably can engrave with a Dremel. I have done so, if rather badly due to lack of skill. I have a friend (also called Colin) who engraves items including pewter tankards and glasses at beer-festivals. I know that he doesn't think that a Dremel is the best tool, but he obviously can't use a percussive engraver on a glass!

If I remember correctly, the softer the material, the slower the speed and the choice of tip will probably depend on the material being engraved and on the finished item. Why not try your hand with a few bits of scrap and work your way up - practice makes perfect. IIRC, my friend marks out what is to be engraved before picking up the engraving tool, especially on glass.

His website is:

http://www.thepewterscribe.co.uk/index.html

If you tell him that "Pervy" gave you the contact, he might see you well, but I can't guarantee anything - it is his living, after all..

Colin.
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Old 5th Jul 2017, 12:17 pm   #5
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Default Re: Dremel 4000 Engraver

Wouldn't it be easier to electroengrave ? All you need is salt, water and current ... ?
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Old 5th Jul 2017, 1:11 pm   #6
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Default Re: Dremel 4000 Engraver

Quote:
Originally Posted by G0HZU_JMR View Post
But they don't fit in the Dremel chuck!
Hi

If you mean that they don't fit the brass clutch thingy then look on ebay for a set of the brass bits, they come with loads of hole sizes.

I can use any of the 3rd party burrs/drills/grinders/etc with my Dremel and the set of brass bits I have.

Said it before but I love my Dremel 4000 - latest use is to open up and deepen the screwdriver slot in difficult bolt heads - then if the nut spins and I can't get at it to hold it - I just whip the head of the bolt off with a cutting wheel. Countersunk head? No problem with a burr tool! Nothing can stop me refurbishing this rusty kit now.....

James

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Old 5th Jul 2017, 1:24 pm   #7
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Default Re: Dremel 4000 Engraver

I agree with James and I was meaning to say that you can buy sets of collets for the Dremel chucks. Be careful, though, as some don't fit the nose of the Dremel properly. It is also worth bearing in mind that Dremel suggest that you only use approved (i.e. made by Dremel) accessories. I think the likelihood of one of those little grinding-wheels exploding is unlikely, but for the peace of mind it is probably worth shelling out the little bit more cash for approved kit. I have bought from Tyzack:

http://www.tyzacktools.com/default.aspx

happily in the past (not associated, just a customer).

I would also suggest that a full face-mask might be a useful thing to use - it isn't just your eyes that matter in your face.

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Old 5th Jul 2017, 2:25 pm   #8
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Default Re: Dremel 4000 Engraver

Quote:
Originally Posted by JacKam_ View Post
Wouldn't it be easier to electroengrave ? All you need is salt, water and current ... ?
Not quite as simple as you make out, Jacek. I just Googled it and the two metals must be the same (the anode is the bit that gets etched) and the cation of the salt must be the same as the metal, too (e.g. iron, copper, zinc soluble salts). That's alright if you know what the metal is, but if you don't, or if it is an alloy, you are stymied. It might be that you want to engrave a plated piece, too, so which metal do you choose then? It goes without saying that both substrates need to be conductors, so no chance of etching glass or plastic.
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Old 5th Jul 2017, 5:20 pm   #9
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Default Re: Dremel 4000 Engraver

Thanks to all for the good advice...

Quote:
I have bought from Tyzack:
http://www.tyzacktools.com/default.aspx
This looks good. I'll have a look at alternative collets (4485?) and also try and buy some finer tools for it as well.

Quote:
I think the likelihood of one of those little grinding-wheels exploding is unlikely,
I agree but many years ago I saw what happened to someone's face when a (large) high speed wheel exploded. A large fragment hit him just above the top of his nose and it made a nasty mess there. It was also enough to destroy his sense of smell and taste. Not sure if this was permanent but the cosmetic damage to his nose looked permanent.

Quote:
I would also suggest that a full face-mask might be a useful thing to use - it isn't just your eyes that matter in your face.
Thanks. I've not plugged it in yet but I get the impression that (in terms of sheer grunt) the Dremel 4000 is a big step up from my little 12V 'Titan Super' drill from Maplins. So I think I'll try and find a mask. Will this be a bit like a tilting riot mask worn over the top of safety glasses?
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Old 5th Jul 2017, 6:28 pm   #10
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Default Re: Dremel 4000 Engraver

I once had a small grinding stone (5mm ish) leave the chuck of a rotary tool like this. I think it came loose in the chuck and as I tried to switch it off I instead increased the speed at which point the shaft started to bend and wobble much worse before exiting sharp right through a wine glass. Luckily it was an empty one!
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Old 5th Jul 2017, 6:51 pm   #11
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Default Re: Dremel 4000 Engraver

I have the Dremel 4000 too, and I have learnt by bitter experience that the advice to use genuine Dremel accessories is sound. The cheap clones do not last. I've had cheap grinding points break up. Cheap cut-off disks shatter almost as soon as they start to cut, the Dremel one will get through quite a thick bar before it is worn away. I even managed (although it did take 2 of the cut-off disks to finish the job) to cut through a hardened steel bearing race that was rusted to a shaft.

The Dremel bits might be more expensive, but they are worth it I think.
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Old 6th Jul 2017, 2:06 pm   #12
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Default Re: Dremel 4000 Engraver

Quote:
Originally Posted by G0HZU_JMR View Post
So I think I'll try and find a mask. Will this be a bit like a tilting riot mask worn over the top of safety glasses?
Yes, I think you have the idea. They seem rather difficult to find on eBay or even Googling, unless you use the correct terms. This is the closest I found at a reasonable price:

https://www.safetysupplies.co.uk/tro...ace-shield.htm

Maybe I should contact my engraver friend and ask his advice. I'll probably see him soon at the Great British Beer Festival at Olympia in August (overt plug - mods can delete if it is too overt).

Colin
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Old 12th Jul 2017, 2:07 pm   #13
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Default Re: Dremel 4000 Engraver

Lidl do dremel-compatible bits from time to time, including engraving bits. I can't say they're much worse than the dremel originals; the cost of the latter makes every broken cutting disc painful in itself!
I wouldn't be without my dremel, its the sort of thing you find jobs for that you didnt realize were feasible.
Safety-wise I use angle-grinding goggles and then if it's the sort of disc that is prone to shatter, I do it behind my desk magnifier as they do fly everywhere. The dremel handbook gives recommended speeds for the various bits and using the tool as intended only is the safe way.

Great for cutting holes in plastic enclosures for IEC connectors, D-SUbs and oblong rocker switches, gaining access to potted modules & welded plastic boxes, trimming bolts, cutting nuts & rivets off, and generally making things fit. Cleaning solder-resist off pcb tracks. Polishing commutators, shortening pot shafts, re-facing contacts. The only thing I've not had success with is drilling holes.
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Old 12th Jul 2017, 2:44 pm   #14
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Default Re: Dremel 4000 Engraver

Aldi are selling these for £9.99 as a grout remover.
https://www.aldi.co.uk/workzone-grou...76263147231100

However, I can confirm that they're IDENTICAL to the engraver David mentioned in post 2.

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Old 12th Jul 2017, 4:16 pm   #15
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Default Re: Dremel 4000 Engraver

Quote:
However, I can confirm that they're IDENTICAL to the engraver David mentioned in post 2.
I can see how you might think that, but comparing the pictures, they aren't identical. If the pictures are truly of the items on sale, that is. Have look for yourself.

On a side-note, I hope that you don't use one of these in your professional activity.... OUCH!!

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Old 12th Jul 2017, 4:22 pm   #16
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Default Re: Dremel 4000 Engraver

Fair enough, Colin, I suspect you're right, but the appearance is uncanny and I suspect there's little difference fundamentally.

And no, I don't (obviously!).

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Old 12th Jul 2017, 5:30 pm   #17
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Default Re: Dremel 4000 Engraver

Strangely enough......


https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Power-Han...remel+engraver
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Old 12th Jul 2017, 7:46 pm   #18
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Default Re: Dremel 4000 Engraver

Interesting!

The fact that Dremel sell an engraving tool with a non rotational percussive action, in itself speaks volumes as in: "If you want a drill, buy a Dremel drill - if you want an engraver, buy a Dremel engraver". In the same way that Dremels have been marketed as a 'toolkit in a box', there's a parallel with WD40, which (allegedly) can be used for loosening seized screws and countless other applications, yet for some years now, WD40 have marketed a range of products for specific applications, such as electrical contact cleaner, and of course, penetrating oil. Id doesn't stop people buying WD40 and expecting it to loosen screws, not will the fact the Dremel sell and engraver stop people using Dremel drills to engrave, quite possibly with a measure of success. After all, there are those who use a hammer as a screwdriver, and a screwdriver to get the lid off a tin of paint!

I'm not sure what tools glass engravers use, but some years ago for a 'special' birthday, a dear friend commissioned as a special present for me, a large straight-sided glass bowl which has a continuous village scene engraved all around it, with me on a motorbike. Very creative. It's not like painting a picture - there's no correcting any errors.
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Old 12th Jul 2017, 8:10 pm   #19
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Default Re: Dremel 4000 Engraver

David, maybe is your "picture" an etched one?
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Old 12th Jul 2017, 8:52 pm   #20
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Default Re: Dremel 4000 Engraver

Quote:
not will the fact the Dremel sell and engraver stop people using Dremel drills to engrave, quite possibly with a measure of success. After all, there are those who use a hammer as a screwdriver, and a screwdriver to get the lid off a tin of paint!
In sport at least, rotary engravers like the Dremel are often used (with a stencil) to engrave a trophy with the name of the winning team. Maybe they do it this way for speed rather than finesse because they do it in between the final whistle and presenting the trophy to the winning team. I've also seen trophies that get professionally engraved using hand scribers and hand cutters but this takes a long time. Probably done over a day or more?

I've also used a CNC machine here at home (that uses a high speed rotary tool head) to mill/drill/rout PCBs and also used it to engrave logos into a PCB or front panel with good results. So this was what inspired me to experiment with the Dremel engraver accessory. I'm not looking to do anything deeply arty/crafty but the idea was to make a basic stencil of my name with the CNC machine and then use the Dremel engraver accessory to score out the letters. Hopefully, it would turn out reasonably straight with no slip marks etc
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