Radio Identification Please. (Identified as a Belmont 700). - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

G4_Pete · 21st Jul 2017, 4:53 pm

Hi this just arrived for service. The owner thinks it came from France, looking inside the speaker is Wolverhampton England. I will try to get a better picture of the dial but it is reflective behind a domed glass and not coming out too well under the current lighting.

The knobs are wooden and there is no dust behind the dial or around the bezel in fact it is all very clean almost too clean!

Pete

ms660 · 21st Jul 2017, 4:58 pm

Looks like a Belmont.

Lawrence.

Cobaltblue · 21st Jul 2017, 4:59 pm

Looks very similar to the Belmont 700

http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/belmont_700.html

Cheers

Mike T

21st Jul 2017, 5:02 pm

Is there any sign of repair under the chassis? It does look like a recent (last 20 years) "restoration".

G4_Pete · 21st Jul 2017, 5:21 pm

Hi looking under the chasiss there has been a new mains lead (Blue and Brown) and a new coax aerial lead soldered direct under the chasis. The mains lead is a twin lead no earth but there has been a green modern earth lead soldered to the chasis snipped off and coiled under the chasis. perhaps to earth the chasis during servicing?

HamishBoxer · 21st Jul 2017, 5:23 pm

Belmont is written on the dial.

G4_Pete · 21st Jul 2017, 5:58 pm

Hi , downloaded the trader and Broadcast service sheets for the Belmont 700 from Paul's site and they line up to what I have.

I could not read the Belmont old English but it is obvious now!

Thanks for the help, One final question as this is quite original looking under the chassis has it got any value or is just another Woodie variation. That might affect what type of restore the owner wants. My normal position is electrical performance over originality of parts.

Pete

HamishBoxer · 21st Jul 2017, 6:24 pm

Rough guesstimate,£30--40 as is.I must admit I like it.

McMurdo · 21st Jul 2017, 8:28 pm

If the speaker was made in Wolverhampton it's probably an R&A.

I can't look at a Belmont without hearing Gerry Wells' anecdote about a youthful misdemeanor playing in my mind!

G4_Pete · 22nd Jul 2017, 8:04 am

hi,
Just for interest this is the under chasis view.
Pete

Herald1360 · 22nd Jul 2017, 8:18 am

If it did come from France, it must have been taken there privately. The waveband indicator would say Grandes Ondes if it was sold there. There is some vaguely Gallic style to it, though the escutcheons look more American in style than French. It certainly wasn't built there.

vinrads · 22nd Jul 2017, 9:16 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by HamishBoxer

Rough guesstimate,£30--40 as is.I must admit I like it.

Oh dear I hope mine is worth more than that

,OK if it a purchase un restored
price , these are nice radio's easy to work on don't try and clean the bezel just give it a wash ,the speaker cloth would look better in a weave type material .Good luck with it . Mick.

sexton_mallard · 22nd Jul 2017, 10:34 am

Those TCC electrolytic capacitors in the under the chassis image do look attractive. Is there a possibility that all the tubular caps have been restuffed considering the evidence of other recent repair work? On a second look I do see some rubber wiring so I'm not so sure.

G4_Pete · 22nd Jul 2017, 4:30 pm

Hi, Yes it has been worked on but I have yet to look in detail at the components. I am going slowly slowly on this one and though not normally a fan of stuffing components the pitch filled tubular decoupling capacitors would be good candidates. The Electrolytics are quite pretty but I am thinking that re stuffing those is going to seriously affect the ripple handling vs heat escape characteristics of a modern component inside.
The first job has been to build a protective cover front and back for the domed glass dial, looks like it could also be removed but that is not without risk. Terrified of breaking it, it looks almost as thin as an egg shell!!! .
Pete

Boater Sam · 22nd Jul 2017, 4:41 pm

Restuffing the electrolytics with new tiny capacitors will be fine, there's masses of space inside, the heat will be no problem. Would be a shame to deface it with modern radial parts.
Sam.

G4_Pete · 4th Aug 2017, 4:40 pm

Hi,
I had a thread open looking for a dial for a Belmont set I am restoring however looking at the as found dial again I am wondering would Belmont have made up dials for export models for specific areas?

Looking at the dial the card (Photo attached) it is well made with holes punched for the SW/LW/MW indicators but the blue lines look hand painted.

The owner thinks the radio came from France.

If the concensus is that the above is true I will abandon my search for an "original" dial as the one in the photo will be part of the sets history.

Pete

HamishBoxer · 4th Aug 2017, 5:17 pm

I am not convinced the set came from France. That dial looks pretty standard to me.

PeterRoberts · 4th Aug 2017, 6:12 pm

The words "Short", "Medium", and "Long" would suggest that this dial was not designed for a French or any other specific overseas market.

bluepilot · 4th Aug 2017, 6:16 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by HamishBoxer

I am not convinced the set came from France. That dial looks pretty standard to me.

The voltage settings look wrong for France. I would expect there to be a 220V setting and/or 110V if the radio were French.

Also the dial just looks somehow wrong. A lot of the text is badly spaced and orientated and the "Belmont" looks like gothic Letraset which doesn't quite fit in the space available. To me it looks more like the original panel got broken or rusty or something and someone has installed a home-made replacement

G4_Pete · 4th Aug 2017, 8:09 pm

It was just the fact that the card was very neat and all the cut outs were punched including the oblong ones , but the lettering is very poor as commented.
I will continue searching for a dial to copy.

Apologies if diverging but for interest I found that the oscillator would only run over part of the LW and MW bands and not at all on SW. This was due to the 50 pF brown moulded silver mica Hunts capacitor to the Oscillator triode grid being faulty. It measured good at 56 pF on a simple LCR meter ( AVO B183 ) but balanced with a D dial setting of 10 ( X0.01) on a Marconi TF2700. Which I interpret as approx 280K Ohms series resistance under bridge voltage and frequency conditions. A new capacitor measured Zero on the D setting and fully fixed the oscillator problems.

This capacitor takes the full 350 Volt turn on surge as does other mica capacitors in this section so that may have stressed it. I am afraid I felt it was a valid mod to put a 1KV 0.01 ceramic capactor off the anode to feed the oscillator coils and wave change switch also so that the section was not DC floating a HV 3 meg to earth to bleed off was fitted. The whole oscillator tuning section including the ancient wafer switch now runs at ground potential instead of surging to 350 volts at every turn on.
On the plus side someone may have changed all the valves to find the fault as they all test spot on to above specs.

Pete

21st Jul 2017, 4:53 pm	#1
G4_Pete Hexode Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Southampton, Hampshire, UK. Posts: 419	Radio Identification Please. (Identified as a Belmont 700). Hi this just arrived for service. The owner thinks it came from France, looking inside the speaker is Wolverhampton England. I will try to get a better picture of the dial but it is reflective behind a domed glass and not coming out too well under the current lighting. The knobs are wooden and there is no dust behind the dial or around the bezel in fact it is all very clean almost too clean! Pete Attached Thumbnails

21st Jul 2017, 4:58 pm	#2
ms660 Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Cornwall, UK. Posts: 13,454	Re: Radio Identification Please Looks like a Belmont. Lawrence.

21st Jul 2017, 4:59 pm	#3
Cobaltblue Moderator Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Exeter, Devon and Poole, Dorset UK. Posts: 6,865	Re: Radio Identification Please Looks very similar to the Belmont 700 http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/belmont_700.html Cheers Mike T __________________ Invisible airwaves crackle with life or at least they used to Mike T BVWS member. www.cossor.co.uk

21st Jul 2017, 5:02 pm	#4
Guest Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Radio Identification Please Is there any sign of repair under the chassis? It does look like a recent (last 20 years) "restoration".

21st Jul 2017, 5:21 pm	#5
G4_Pete Hexode Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Southampton, Hampshire, UK. Posts: 419	Re: Radio Identification Please Hi looking under the chasiss there has been a new mains lead (Blue and Brown) and a new coax aerial lead soldered direct under the chasis. The mains lead is a twin lead no earth but there has been a green modern earth lead soldered to the chasis snipped off and coiled under the chasis. perhaps to earth the chasis during servicing?

21st Jul 2017, 5:23 pm	#6
HamishBoxer Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: W.Butterwick, near Doncaster UK. Posts: 8,932	Re: Radio Identification Please Belmont is written on the dial. __________________ G8JET BVWS Archivist and Member V.M.A.R.S

21st Jul 2017, 5:58 pm	#7
G4_Pete Hexode Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Southampton, Hampshire, UK. Posts: 419	Re: Radio Identification Please Hi , downloaded the trader and Broadcast service sheets for the Belmont 700 from Paul's site and they line up to what I have. I could not read the Belmont old English but it is obvious now! Thanks for the help, One final question as this is quite original looking under the chassis has it got any value or is just another Woodie variation. That might affect what type of restore the owner wants. My normal position is electrical performance over originality of parts. Pete

21st Jul 2017, 6:24 pm	#8
HamishBoxer Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: W.Butterwick, near Doncaster UK. Posts: 8,932	Re: Radio Identification Please Rough guesstimate,£30--40 as is.I must admit I like it. __________________ G8JET BVWS Archivist and Member V.M.A.R.S

21st Jul 2017, 8:28 pm	#9
McMurdo Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Staffordshire Moorlands, UK. Posts: 5,271	Re: Radio Identification Please If the speaker was made in Wolverhampton it's probably an R&A. I can't look at a Belmont without hearing Gerry Wells' anecdote about a youthful misdemeanor playing in my mind! __________________ Kevin

22nd Jul 2017, 8:04 am	#10
G4_Pete Hexode Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Southampton, Hampshire, UK. Posts: 419	Re: Radio Identification Please hi, Just for interest this is the under chasis view. Pete Attached Thumbnails

22nd Jul 2017, 8:18 am	#11
Herald1360 Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 16,535	Re: Radio Identification Please If it did come from France, it must have been taken there privately. The waveband indicator would say Grandes Ondes if it was sold there. There is some vaguely Gallic style to it, though the escutcheons look more American in style than French. It certainly wasn't built there. __________________ ....__________ ....\|____\|\|__\|__\_____ .=.\| _---\__\|__\|_---_\|. .........O..Chris....O

22nd Jul 2017, 10:34 am	#13
sexton_mallard Heptode Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Ellesmere, Shropshire, UK & Co. Cork, Ireland. Posts: 501	Re: Radio Identification Please Those TCC electrolytic capacitors in the under the chassis image do look attractive. Is there a possibility that all the tubular caps have been restuffed considering the evidence of other recent repair work? On a second look I do see some rubber wiring so I'm not so sure. __________________ Dom Less snakes...more ladders! Last edited by sexton_mallard; 22nd Jul 2017 at 10:38 am. Reason: correct typo

22nd Jul 2017, 4:30 pm	#14
G4_Pete Hexode Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Southampton, Hampshire, UK. Posts: 419	Re: Radio Identification Please Hi, Yes it has been worked on but I have yet to look in detail at the components. I am going slowly slowly on this one and though not normally a fan of stuffing components the pitch filled tubular decoupling capacitors would be good candidates. The Electrolytics are quite pretty but I am thinking that re stuffing those is going to seriously affect the ripple handling vs heat escape characteristics of a modern component inside. The first job has been to build a protective cover front and back for the domed glass dial, looks like it could also be removed but that is not without risk. Terrified of breaking it, it looks almost as thin as an egg shell!!! . Pete

22nd Jul 2017, 4:41 pm	#15
Boater Sam Banned Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Middlewich, Cheshire, UK. & Winter in the Philippines. Posts: 3,897	Re: Radio Identification Please Restuffing the electrolytics with new tiny capacitors will be fine, there's masses of space inside, the heat will be no problem. Would be a shame to deface it with modern radial parts. Sam.

4th Aug 2017, 4:40 pm	#16
G4_Pete Hexode Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Southampton, Hampshire, UK. Posts: 419	Re: Radio Identification Please Hi, I had a thread open looking for a dial for a Belmont set I am restoring however looking at the as found dial again I am wondering would Belmont have made up dials for export models for specific areas? Looking at the dial the card (Photo attached) it is well made with holes punched for the SW/LW/MW indicators but the blue lines look hand painted. The owner thinks the radio came from France. If the concensus is that the above is true I will abandon my search for an "original" dial as the one in the photo will be part of the sets history. Pete Attached Thumbnails

4th Aug 2017, 5:17 pm	#17
HamishBoxer Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: W.Butterwick, near Doncaster UK. Posts: 8,932	Re: Radio Identification Please. (Identified as a Belmont 700). I am not convinced the set came from France. That dial looks pretty standard to me. __________________ G8JET BVWS Archivist and Member V.M.A.R.S

4th Aug 2017, 6:12 pm	#18
PeterRoberts Pentode Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Camberley, Surrey, UK. Posts: 145	Re: Radio Identification Please. (Identified as a Belmont 700). The words "Short", "Medium", and "Long" would suggest that this dial was not designed for a French or any other specific overseas market.

4th Aug 2017, 8:09 pm	#20
G4_Pete Hexode Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Southampton, Hampshire, UK. Posts: 419	Re: Radio Identification Please. (Identified as a Belmont 700). It was just the fact that the card was very neat and all the cut outs were punched including the oblong ones , but the lettering is very poor as commented. I will continue searching for a dial to copy. Apologies if diverging but for interest I found that the oscillator would only run over part of the LW and MW bands and not at all on SW. This was due to the 50 pF brown moulded silver mica Hunts capacitor to the Oscillator triode grid being faulty. It measured good at 56 pF on a simple LCR meter ( AVO B183 ) but balanced with a D dial setting of 10 ( X0.01) on a Marconi TF2700. Which I interpret as approx 280K Ohms series resistance under bridge voltage and frequency conditions. A new capacitor measured Zero on the D setting and fully fixed the oscillator problems. This capacitor takes the full 350 Volt turn on surge as does other mica capacitors in this section so that may have stressed it. I am afraid I felt it was a valid mod to put a 1KV 0.01 ceramic capactor off the anode to feed the oscillator coils and wave change switch also so that the section was not DC floating a HV 3 meg to earth to bleed off was fitted. The whole oscillator tuning section including the ancient wafer switch now runs at ground potential instead of surging to 350 volts at every turn on. On the plus side someone may have changed all the valves to find the fault as they all test spot on to above specs. Pete