PHILIPS EL3300 tape speed - motor? - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Ekcoman · 25th Jul 2015, 5:45 pm

Have been just finished restoring a PHILIPS EL3302 cassette tape recorder and found I have floundered at the last hurdle as the pinch wheel has a dent which made me think if I took the motor from this and replaced the one in my EL3300 would that help me solve a slightly slow tape speed. Maybe they are not compatible. I know the EL3300 has a tendency to run slow. Is it worth considering or should I just leave well alone.

'LIVEWIRE?' · 25th Jul 2015, 6:58 pm

AFAIK, both the EL3300 and 3302 used a similar motor with an outboard speed regulator circuit built around a couple of germanium transistors, though it's many a day since I've seen or worked on either model, so I could be wrong. If I'm right, though, the fault is more likely to be in the speed control circuit, rather than the motor itself. The earlier mechanically governed motors could well suffer from speed problems, though

Restoration73 · 25th Jul 2015, 8:25 pm

EL3300 and 3301 may not have the motor speed control circuit, so you need to
transplant both the board and the motor from the 3302 to enable it to work. You
need a test tape (with a tone) to correctly set the speed adjustment pot (R580)

camtechman · 28th Jul 2015, 3:10 pm

The EL3300 has an internal centrifugal "Bob Weight" speed control. Motors for EL3302 series have no such internal control as they run at a fixed unloaded speed & depends on a separate motor control circuit. BUT, more importantly, EL3302 machines use a different 'power' switch to that of the EL3300.

The EL3302 switch controls both the polarity reversal for when the machine is in play/rew/ff and also the supply to the motor control board too.

Take a look at the difference between original schematic for the EL3300 versus that of the EL3302.

camtechman · 28th Jul 2015, 3:22 pm

P.S. Every EL3300 that I own and have come across all play factory recorded musicassetes slow. My suspicion is when the EL3300 first came out they were set at a different speed,

After all, the customer wouldn't have noticed it, as any recording they made would have played back at the speed it was recorded at and only became noticable when a musicassette tape was played.

TonyDuell · 28th Jul 2015, 3:39 pm

I read somewhere that EL3300s were deliberately set to run slow. The Compact Cassette was sold on its playing time (C60 = 60 minutes, etc) and Philips were worried that there would be complaints if somebody only got 59 minutes 30 seconds on one. So the machine was set to give a longer playing time by running a bit slow.

Ekcoman · 28th Jul 2015, 7:48 pm

Many thanks for all your replies. I think I'll leave as is, especially after reading last two posts.

camtechman · 28th Jul 2015, 10:48 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyDuell

I read somewhere that EL3300s were deliberately set to run slow. The Compact Cassette was sold on its playing time (C60 = 60 minutes, etc) and Philips were worried that there would be complaints if somebody only got 59 minutes 30 seconds on one. So the machine was set to give a longer playing time by running a bit slow.

Now that I think of it, I heard that sometime back.

PaulE27 · 29th Jul 2015, 7:28 am

That was a theory I came up with!

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...&postcount=178

Are there any other sources?

This is how rumours turn into "facts" on the interweb!

Paul

Restoration73 · 29th Jul 2015, 7:47 pm

Bearing in mind that the Compact Cassette was initially also used as a mono music carrier, including pre recorded tapes, I can see no reason why a deviation from the correct speed would be acceptable, as the pitch would be wrong. Philips always made a test tape for engineers. To permit slight speed drift (possibly because of battery
or temperature variations) all blank tapes could provide a bit more time than specified
on the label.

TonyDuell · 29th Jul 2015, 8:53 pm

Did pre-recorded musicassettes come out with the EL3300? I thought they were somewhat later. I have certainly seen books that mention the EL3300 but make no reference to pre-recorded cassettes (e.g. 'The Philips Tape Recorder Book', second edition).

I thought the first speed test tape had length markings on the back. You played it for a specified time and checked it got between the right marks. And the tolerances were pretty wide. Test tapes recorded with a standard frequency came later I think.

Ekcoman · 30th Jul 2015, 8:02 am

As far as I am aware the pre-recorded music cassette didn't appear in the UK until late 66 and very few titles that sold poorly. The EL3300 was not designed as a music producer and was seen in the main as a Dictaphone. Guess that speed therefore wasn't considered so critical as in the later models. The EL3301 & 3302 don't appear to have this issue.

Jimmyhaflinger · 30th Jul 2015, 10:52 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekcoman

As far as I am aware the pre-recorded music cassette didn't appear in the UK until late 66 and very few titles that sold poorly

in 1968 they made the low-cost, playback-only N2200 Cassettophone to stimulate sales of prerecorded cassettes

https://books.google.it/books?id=rAc...corded&f=false

25th Jul 2015, 5:45 pm	#1
Ekcoman Heptode Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Southend, Essex, UK Posts: 663	PHILIPS EL3300 tape speed - motor? Have been just finished restoring a PHILIPS EL3302 cassette tape recorder and found I have floundered at the last hurdle as the pinch wheel has a dent which made me think if I took the motor from this and replaced the one in my EL3300 would that help me solve a slightly slow tape speed. Maybe they are not compatible. I know the EL3300 has a tendency to run slow. Is it worth considering or should I just leave well alone. __________________ "I really am seriously downsizing "

25th Jul 2015, 6:58 pm	#2
'LIVEWIRE?' Rest in Peace Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: N.W. Oxfordshire(Chipping Norton) Posts: 7,306	Re: PHILIPS EL3300 tape speed - motor? AFAIK, both the EL3300 and 3302 used a similar motor with an outboard speed regulator circuit built around a couple of germanium transistors, though it's many a day since I've seen or worked on either model, so I could be wrong. If I'm right, though, the fault is more likely to be in the speed control circuit, rather than the motor itself. The earlier mechanically governed motors could well suffer from speed problems, though

25th Jul 2015, 8:25 pm	#3
Restoration73 Nonode Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Surbiton, SW London, UK. Posts: 2,801	Re: PHILIPS EL3300 tape speed - motor? EL3300 and 3301 may not have the motor speed control circuit, so you need to transplant both the board and the motor from the 3302 to enable it to work. You need a test tape (with a tone) to correctly set the speed adjustment pot (R580)

28th Jul 2015, 3:10 pm	#4
camtechman Nonode Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Milton Keynes, Bucks. UK. Posts: 2,552	Re: PHILIPS EL3300 tape speed - motor? The EL3300 has an internal centrifugal "Bob Weight" speed control. Motors for EL3302 series have no such internal control as they run at a fixed unloaded speed & depends on a separate motor control circuit. BUT, more importantly, EL3302 machines use a different 'power' switch to that of the EL3300. The EL3302 switch controls both the polarity reversal for when the machine is in play/rew/ff and also the supply to the motor control board too. Take a look at the difference between original schematic for the EL3300 versus that of the EL3302. __________________ When I die, please don't let my Wife sell my collection for the amount I told her I paid for it! Last edited by camtechman; 28th Jul 2015 at 3:27 pm.

28th Jul 2015, 3:22 pm	#5
camtechman Nonode Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Milton Keynes, Bucks. UK. Posts: 2,552	Re: PHILIPS EL3300 tape speed - motor? P.S. Every EL3300 that I own and have come across all play factory recorded musicassetes slow. My suspicion is when the EL3300 first came out they were set at a different speed, After all, the customer wouldn't have noticed it, as any recording they made would have played back at the speed it was recorded at and only became noticable when a musicassette tape was played. __________________ When I die, please don't let my Wife sell my collection for the amount I told her I paid for it! Last edited by camtechman; 28th Jul 2015 at 3:28 pm.

28th Jul 2015, 3:39 pm	#6
TonyDuell Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Biggin Hill, London, UK. Posts: 5,224	Re: PHILIPS EL3300 tape speed - motor? I read somewhere that EL3300s were deliberately set to run slow. The Compact Cassette was sold on its playing time (C60 = 60 minutes, etc) and Philips were worried that there would be complaints if somebody only got 59 minutes 30 seconds on one. So the machine was set to give a longer playing time by running a bit slow.

28th Jul 2015, 7:48 pm	#7
Ekcoman Heptode Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Southend, Essex, UK Posts: 663	Re: PHILIPS EL3300 tape speed - motor? Many thanks for all your replies. I think I'll leave as is, especially after reading last two posts. __________________ "I really am seriously downsizing "

29th Jul 2015, 7:28 am	#9
PaulE27 Pentode Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: London, UK. Posts: 222	Re: PHILIPS EL3300 tape speed - motor? That was a theory I came up with! https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...&postcount=178 Are there any other sources? This is how rumours turn into "facts" on the interweb! Paul

29th Jul 2015, 7:47 pm	#10
Restoration73 Nonode Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Surbiton, SW London, UK. Posts: 2,801	Re: PHILIPS EL3300 tape speed - motor? Bearing in mind that the Compact Cassette was initially also used as a mono music carrier, including pre recorded tapes, I can see no reason why a deviation from the correct speed would be acceptable, as the pitch would be wrong. Philips always made a test tape for engineers. To permit slight speed drift (possibly because of battery or temperature variations) all blank tapes could provide a bit more time than specified on the label.

29th Jul 2015, 8:53 pm	#11
TonyDuell Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Biggin Hill, London, UK. Posts: 5,224	Re: PHILIPS EL3300 tape speed - motor? Did pre-recorded musicassettes come out with the EL3300? I thought they were somewhat later. I have certainly seen books that mention the EL3300 but make no reference to pre-recorded cassettes (e.g. 'The Philips Tape Recorder Book', second edition). I thought the first speed test tape had length markings on the back. You played it for a specified time and checked it got between the right marks. And the tolerances were pretty wide. Test tapes recorded with a standard frequency came later I think. Last edited by TonyDuell; 29th Jul 2015 at 8:54 pm. Reason: Correcting a typo

30th Jul 2015, 8:02 am	#12
Ekcoman Heptode Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Southend, Essex, UK Posts: 663	Re: PHILIPS EL3300 tape speed - motor? As far as I am aware the pre-recorded music cassette didn't appear in the UK until late 66 and very few titles that sold poorly. The EL3300 was not designed as a music producer and was seen in the main as a Dictaphone. Guess that speed therefore wasn't considered so critical as in the later models. The EL3301 & 3302 don't appear to have this issue. __________________ "I really am seriously downsizing "