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Old 3rd Dec 2008, 7:29 pm   #1
macheinz
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Default PYE G73 radiogram slow running

Hi there, I have just got a PYE G73 "stereophonic" radiogram which, I believe, came out around 1962. It's got lovely tone on the radio, all the finish of the cabinet is in excellent nick but the deck is running a tad slo, like at about 30-31 rpm. instead of 33, same 41-42 at 45 rpm. I found this site and have been reading threads covering this sort of problem. I thought I might follow suggestions found here like getting under the turntable and seeing if the bearings and geared cam are in need of a clean and oil/grease respectively and whether the idler wheel needs attention. I have removed the plastic cover from the centre of the turntable and then removed the C clip but now I've come up against a metal colar with an engineered break/gap on one side of it that the central record spindle runs through. There is a brass or copper washer under this collar. I have made investigative attempts to free this collar and the central spindle but all is feeling stuck and I am loathe to force it. I am wondering if anyone is familiar with this model or decks of the same kind of construction and if so, how do you get at the relevent parts. Or is this model different in drive mechanism or access. I have read that sometimes just running the turntable can "warm it up to speed" but I am dubious. I ran it for an hour with no noticible change. I am keen on and have various bits of valve equipment and realise It's good to get to know more. I can follow instructions but I am no electrician.
Thanks for listening, any ideas?
macheinz.
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Old 3rd Dec 2008, 10:47 pm   #2
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Default Re: PYE G73 radiogram slow running

Hi and welcome to the forum!
what deck (make , model) is this? some jpegs would also be useful. Ben
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Old 4th Dec 2008, 11:33 am   #3
Audio1950
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Default Re: PYE G73 radiogram slow running

If you've removed a plastic disc from the centre of the turntable, I think you'll find this is a BSR UA14 deck. (Dark grey or brown fittings). Are you saying the turntable won't come off? After you took the circlip off, the turntable should lift off, with no need to remove anything else, certainly not the centre spindle. I've just had a look at a UA14, UA15, and UA16, they are all the same. The metal collar with the gap in it that the spindle runs through is not removable, it's the turntable shaft, and apart from running a spot of oil onto it when you finally reassemble the unit, should not require any attention.
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Old 4th Dec 2008, 12:40 pm   #4
Mike Phelan
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Default Re: PYE G73 radiogram slow running

There's a fair chance that the top bearing on the motor is probably dry as the fluff and dust leaches the oil out. See if it spins freely. The fixed outer spindle is rivetted to the deck plate, and the only thing like a washer is the ballrace and its two hardened washers.
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Old 5th Dec 2008, 11:54 am   #5
Audio1950
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Default Re: PYE G73 radiogram slow running

I think I've worked it out! When you took the circlip off, you saw the top of the metal collar protruding through the turntable and thought that it had to come off before the turntable could be removed? The "copper washer" you could see is not a washer, it's the bronze centre of the turntable. When you lift off the turntable, you will leave the metal collar and the spindle in place. Hope this helps!

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Old 6th Dec 2008, 7:30 pm   #6
macheinz
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Default Re: PYE G73 radiogram slow running

Hi and thanks for all your responses, Yes Audio 1950 your first mail helped me get to grips with getting the turntable off - I hadn't unscrewed the nuts that secure the deck down and deactivate the suspension springs, When I did this the deck did indeed just lift off and looking at photos online it does look like a BRS UA14 type. I have attached some jpegs that I hope someone might use to guide me with regarding any action I might take to get the deck to run at the right speed. Everything looks solid and I cleaned off what little surface dirt there was under there. The rubber wheel (idler?) is pliable there is a spring at the back of the mechanism that helps position this wheel, does it help to oil that? As I mentioned before, I've read on threads that there are bearings and/or the top bearing in the motor TUIT mentions that can benefit from cleaning and oiling, also a geared cam and that the old grease and dirt on that can cause a slowing of rotation and do with similar treatment? I've been looking for online diagrams so I can identify parts better but with no luck yet, so I appologise if I've got some wrong.
Thanks again.
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Old 7th Dec 2008, 1:02 am   #7
Audio1950
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Default Re: PYE G73 radiogram slow running

Hi again
Yep,



this a UA14. The following directions sound far more complicated than they actually are. Take it step by step, and you'll be ok!
First remove the clip from the top of the cam (fourth photo) and lift it off. At this point, it will be easier to remove the washers and ball bearing race that the turntable sits on, and clean and grease them. Replace in correct order.Thoroughly clean the groove on the underneath of the cam with alcohol, or WD40, also the hole through the centre. Do the same with the projecting pillar that sits in the cam groove. This has a roller on it, make sure it revolves freely when clean. Apply a light grease to the groove and pillar, and a drop of oil to the spindle the cam sits on, and re-assemble. This can sometimes be a little difficult, beacause when the cam is removed, the pillar that sits in the groove will move out, so make sure that the pick up arm is free, then push the pillar towards the spindle quite hard, and the arm will move sharply inwards. Ignore this for the moment, just rotate the cam on it's spindle until it drops onto place. Put the circlip back on, and rotate the whole cam until the gap in the teeth is next to the main spindle, as in photo 4 Put the arm back on it's rest. Now remove circlip from the trip pawl. This is the little attachment on the top of the cam. Clean thoroughly and replace. DO NOT OIL ANY PART OF THIS. It relies on metal-to metal friction to work correctly. Put a drop of oil on the point where the motor shaft comes out of the motor, (top bearing) then clean the stepped pulley on the top of the motor shaft, making sure no traces of oil remain, and you're nearly there. Now carefully remove the Jockey wheel,(photo 3) making note of any washers (one is sure to stick to the bottom of the wheel!). Clean hole in wheel, and the spindle it sits on, and put a tiny drop of oil on the spindle, then replace wheel and relevant washers. Clean any traces of oil from the jockey wheel rubber surface with alcohol, and also the inside rim of the turntable. Clean the centre hole of the turntable, and the lower portion of the main spindle that the turntable sits on. Drop of oil on the inside of the turntable cenre hole. Ensure that the Auto/manual/off control is set to "off" and replace turntable.
You may have to just tweak the jockey wheel under the rim of the turntable as you lower it down. Put circlip back on turntable, job done! (hopefully). Let us know if any more problems still remain. Nice radiogram!

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Old 11th Dec 2008, 2:41 pm   #8
macheinz
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Default Re: PYE G73 radiogram slow running - Thanks.

Thanks AUDIO 1950,
Yes, fantastic, that worked a treat, I followed your comprehensive (which I needed) instructions and records now play at the correct speed. In the process I cleaned up all the showing parts as well and now it looks and sounds great.
The only snag I had was getting the circlip that secures the central cam back down on its pillar, but I see there are special pliers available.Do I need to get some of these and get the thing sitting like it was? This circlip is sitting in its groove and does hold but I can't seem to get it back right around the pillar. This made me anxious about removing the circlip on the jockey wheel so I just sprayed a small ammount of WD40 on the spindle and circlip and spun the wheel back and forth until it moved free and easy. The other clips I removed were easy to refit. Everything else I did as you described. If I can suss these circlips out I will do more of a clean and oil of the jockey wheel because I reckon that will last longer than than the job I've done so far.
Thanks for your time and know how.
macheinz.
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Old 12th Dec 2008, 12:08 am   #9
Audio1950
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Default Re: PYE G73 radiogram slow running

Hi
You shouldn't need any special tools to get the circlip back. How did you get it off? Don't try to open it up and slide it over the central pillar, just line up the open end of the clip with the groove and push horizontally. You may have to use a fairly large bladed screwdriver to push it with, but usually finger pressure alone will do it. Unlike later Garrard units, which depend on the circlip to keep the spindle in, as this is a radiogram and not likely to be tipped up, and the spindle is non-removable, no harm will occur if the circlip is not replaced!
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Old 12th Dec 2008, 8:28 am   #10
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Default Re: PYE G73 radiogram slow running - Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio1950 View Post
Hi
Unlike later Garrard units, which depend on the circlip to keep the spindle in, as this is a radiogram and not likely to be tipped up, and the spindle is non-removable, no harm will occur if the circlip is not replaced!
Isn't Mac referring to the circlip on the large timing gear, not the one on the turntable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by macheinz View Post
Thanks AUDIO 1950,
The only snag I had was getting the circlip that secures the central cam back down on its pillar, but I see there are special pliers available.
These pliers are for removing circlips with holes in the ends - external and internal. As Audio rightly says, the ones on your deck just unclip by using pliers, at right-angles to the spindle axis.
WD40 is not a good idea for the large gear, as it's not a lubricant; during the change cycle it is under quite a lot of pressure. Thin grease is what you need there.
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Old 12th Dec 2008, 9:26 am   #11
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Default Re: PYE G73 radiogram slow running

The circlips are actually "E" clips so called because of their shape. The gap between the ends is much larger than that found in a circlip with holes in the ends They are far less springy than circlips and can be bent permanently. I have never had any trouble replacing such clips by sitting the ends in the grove and then using a pair of pliers aligned along the axis of the shaft to force them into place. If this opens them up a bit the pliers can then be used to squeeze them back into the groove.
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Old 12th Dec 2008, 12:30 pm   #12
Audio1950
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Default Re: PYE G73 radiogram slow running - Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Mike Phelan View Post
Isn't Mac referring to the circlip on the large timing gear, not the one on the turntable?
Whoops! Sorry about that.

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