Sailor 1000 Series HF Tx/Rx - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

David Simpson · 15th Aug 2010, 2:04 pm

Split from this thread:-

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=55068

----------------------------------------------------------------

Guys, Have now decided to keep the beast, but have had to build a special enclosure out in the back passageway, and a 24V battery supply.
Shant use the powerfull Tx & it's exiter, but intend to use the Rx which will receive from 1.6Mhz to 25.6Mhz, fully switchable from a synthisized source. The 1200V, 400V, & -60V DC voltages from the PSU for the Tx I'll run into my workshop for reference & testing purposes.
Hopefully, I'll should be able to link the Rx with my old Sailor 76D AM Tx and use in the Amateur Bands of 1.81 to 2.0Mhz, & 3.5 to 3.8Mhz, now that I've obtained a Foundation Licence about 3 months ago.
With that in mind, I'll need to re-crystal the Tx and would appreciate advice from experienced Hams as to which are the most common frequencies in use for AM, south & north of the Border? This'll be an autumn project.

Regards, David

Station X · 15th Aug 2010, 2:26 pm

The most commonly used HF AM frequency in the UK is 3.615 MHz. I'd have a listen there to check you can receive it before buying a crystal though.

Pamphonica · 15th Aug 2010, 4:00 pm

David,
a nice project might be a VFO for the Tx instead of crystal(s). No need to commit to a single frequency (and crystals are not cheap nowadays). Just stuff the vfo output into the crystal socket and see what happens. Even use a sig-gen to test things out into a dummy load. Anyway, there have been lots of wonderful vfo circuits over the years, including valve VFOs. A couple of EF91s, one as oscillator, one as buffer, might be ideal. Email me and I'll scan some stuff for you (from the RSGB RadCom Handbook4th edition which still has lots of valves in it!). You can calibrate a nice dial using a cheap/simple DFM to check output frequency.
All the best
Jeremy

Station X · 15th Aug 2010, 4:06 pm

A VFO for AM needs to be very stable these days, the reason being that those listening may be using SSB receivers with no AM facility. They will have to retune if the transmitter's frequency drifts and this can become quite difficult if listening to a net of several stations.

Pamphonica · 15th Aug 2010, 4:27 pm

That's a very good point, Graham. Its a long time since I built any valve Tx bits - probably nearly 40 years! But couldn't a simple, but well designed valve VFO with well stabilised HT, rigidly mounted tuned circuitry (away from valve heat) with a suitable warm-up time still suffice? If not, a nicely Eddystone boxed FET-based vfo, thermally stable and solidly built might do instead. What sort of stability would be required? Anyway, a whole new project for David!

Station X · 15th Aug 2010, 6:13 pm

My vintage valve AM rigs all have bad drift during warm up and aren't that stable once warmed up. There's also the problem that setting the frequency using the TX dial just isn't accurate enough. That would have been fine when AM ruled and you just selected a quite frequency to transmit on, or netted on to someone else's transmission, but it isn't good enough today when SSB predominates the bands.

I have a frequency counter loosely coupled to my dummy load and aerial and use that to set and reset the frequency as necessary. It has a 5MHz reference in an oven. Crystal control would avoid the need for that. The number of frequencies used for AM is so few that you could probably buy all the crystals needed for less than the cost of a VFO.

As for stability, tune in an AM transmission on a modern SSB set with digital readout and see how far you can off tune before the beat note renders the transmission inaudible. It isn't much.

I am of course well aware that digital readouts on amateur equipment aren't always accurate. They depend on the correct trimming of the crystal within the rig.

M0AFJ, Tim · 15th Aug 2010, 6:22 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Simpson

Split from this thread:-

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=55068

----------------------------------------------------------------

Guys, Have now decided to keep the beast, but have had to build a special enclosure out in the back passageway, and a 24V battery supply.
Shant use the powerfull Tx & it's exiter, but intend to use the Rx which will receive from 1.6Mhz to 25.6Mhz, fully switchable from a synthisized source. The 1200V, 400V, & -60V DC voltages from the PSU for the Tx I'll run into my workshop for reference & testing purposes.
Hopefully, I'll should be able to link the Rx with my old Sailor 76D AM Tx and use in the Amateur Bands of 1.81 to 2.0Mhz, & 3.5 to 3.8Mhz, now that I've obtained a Foundation Licence about 3 months ago.
With that in mind, I'll need to re-crystal the Tx and would appreciate advice from experienced Hams as to which are the most common frequencies in use for AM, south & north of the Border? This'll be an autumn project.

Regards, David

Nice project David, should keep you warm on a winters night. Remember however with your MM6 licence you can only use type approved equipment, mind you with your knowledge you should be able to romp through the intermediate and full licence, nay bother

David Simpson · 15th Aug 2010, 6:47 pm

You're right Tim, I'm restricted to 10W PeP with just the Foundation Licence. However, the Sailor 76D has a 10W selection. Quite frankly, its no secret that I'm not heavily into the Ham scene. But I do collect these old vintage Sailor Marine Tx/Rx's which can operate in the A3H Ham bands, just by changing the crystals. Therefore it'll be a lot easier to do transmission & reception tests with Ham &/or licenced Forum guys, than by old contacts in the fishing industry. Just about all vessels are using satcom these days, and most coastal stations have either closed down completely or dont have even a full 24hr watch facility for 2182KHz these days.
Right enough, the technical content of the Intermediate exam is way below my old RAF qualifications, but obviously I'll need to gen up on Ham & Ofcom proceedures. That'll be another project for next year prahaps. I did work for a while with marine electronics & kept up contacts on "grandfather rights", but no longer am involved with shore to ship transmissions.

Regards, David

Sean Williams · 15th Aug 2010, 7:20 pm

David,

Im feeling very green, and regretting not travelling to Aberdeen when you offered this now....

Let me know when you are on the air with it, and I will be happy to try a 2 way QSO

How about a VFO based on a DDS chip - stability could then be GPS locked if you really fancy a challenge

Sean
M1ECY

David Simpson · 15th Aug 2010, 8:39 pm

Sean, you'd have been very welcome to have visited anytime. Weather or not collecting this old Sailor 1000. We've pleanty of spare room.
Word is out via the chap who runs the local salvage yard - that I rescue old equipment from the dreaded skip. So another similar rig might well become available. And quite frankly, I just dont have the room, but would still rescue one.
I'll probably just get three or four crystals for the 76D Tx. I dont want to upset Ofcom or strict Ham guys, by inducing any form of frequency instability, even on the few occasions when I do transmit. Sailor claim 0.005% Freq Stab., and harmonic suppression of greater than 50dbs when fitted with decent HC6/U crystals. I'll actually have quite a few ex Sailor crystals spare on offer, once I get round to listing them.
Sorting out this Sailor rig & re-building an old Cossor 3339 scope, are my top priorities just now.

Regards, David

Mikebay · 16th Aug 2010, 9:18 am

David,
There is still a lot of AM activity on 3.615, including the Vintage and Military ARS on a Saturday morning. A lot of the sets used are old military equipment, but that is half the fun, keeping an eye on the Tx frequency. Try keeping an old Swan 500C on frequency!
Just keep an eye on the frequency, and a lot of fun can be had with the challenge.
73
Mike M0XGG
VMARS Member

David Simpson · 16th Aug 2010, 10:40 am

Right enough Mike, now that I remember, I used to listen out on 3615 a couple of years back using the 66TS Rx on manual tune & a temp aerial.
My next move in this Sailor 1000 project is to errect the telescopic masts I've had lying in my shed for ages. Regards, David

ex seismic · 17th Aug 2010, 2:40 pm

Rather than crystals, try a cheaper (and more than one frequency!) Multi-Rock from GW4GTE, provided you don't object to a bit of modern non-valve stuff in there!

http://www.s9plus.com/

Gordon.

15th Aug 2010, 2:04 pm	#1
David Simpson Nonode Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Aberdeen, UK. Posts: 2,851	Sailor 1000 Series HF Tx/Rx Split from this thread:- https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=55068 ---------------------------------------------------------------- Guys, Have now decided to keep the beast, but have had to build a special enclosure out in the back passageway, and a 24V battery supply. Shant use the powerfull Tx & it's exiter, but intend to use the Rx which will receive from 1.6Mhz to 25.6Mhz, fully switchable from a synthisized source. The 1200V, 400V, & -60V DC voltages from the PSU for the Tx I'll run into my workshop for reference & testing purposes. Hopefully, I'll should be able to link the Rx with my old Sailor 76D AM Tx and use in the Amateur Bands of 1.81 to 2.0Mhz, & 3.5 to 3.8Mhz, now that I've obtained a Foundation Licence about 3 months ago. With that in mind, I'll need to re-crystal the Tx and would appreciate advice from experienced Hams as to which are the most common frequencies in use for AM, south & north of the Border? This'll be an autumn project. Regards, David Attached Thumbnails

15th Aug 2010, 2:26 pm	#2
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,286	Re: Sailor 1000 Series HF Tx/Rx The most commonly used HF AM frequency in the UK is 3.615 MHz. I'd have a listen there to check you can receive it before buying a crystal though. __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

15th Aug 2010, 4:00 pm	#3
Pamphonica Nonode Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Virginia Water, Surrey, UK. Posts: 2,876	Re: Sailor 1000 Series HF Tx/Rx David, a nice project might be a VFO for the Tx instead of crystal(s). No need to commit to a single frequency (and crystals are not cheap nowadays). Just stuff the vfo output into the crystal socket and see what happens. Even use a sig-gen to test things out into a dummy load. Anyway, there have been lots of wonderful vfo circuits over the years, including valve VFOs. A couple of EF91s, one as oscillator, one as buffer, might be ideal. Email me and I'll scan some stuff for you (from the RSGB RadCom Handbook4th edition which still has lots of valves in it!). You can calibrate a nice dial using a cheap/simple DFM to check output frequency. All the best Jeremy __________________ Jeremy, G8MLK, BVWTVM Friend, VMARS, BVWS Secretary. www.pamphonic.co.uk www.bttt.org.uk

15th Aug 2010, 4:06 pm	#4
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,286	Re: Sailor 1000 Series HF Tx/Rx A VFO for AM needs to be very stable these days, the reason being that those listening may be using SSB receivers with no AM facility. They will have to retune if the transmitter's frequency drifts and this can become quite difficult if listening to a net of several stations. __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

15th Aug 2010, 4:27 pm	#5
Pamphonica Nonode Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Virginia Water, Surrey, UK. Posts: 2,876	Re: Sailor 1000 Series HF Tx/Rx That's a very good point, Graham. Its a long time since I built any valve Tx bits - probably nearly 40 years! But couldn't a simple, but well designed valve VFO with well stabilised HT, rigidly mounted tuned circuitry (away from valve heat) with a suitable warm-up time still suffice? If not, a nicely Eddystone boxed FET-based vfo, thermally stable and solidly built might do instead. What sort of stability would be required? Anyway, a whole new project for David! __________________ Jeremy, G8MLK, BVWTVM Friend, VMARS, BVWS Secretary. www.pamphonic.co.uk www.bttt.org.uk

15th Aug 2010, 6:13 pm	#6
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,286	Re: Sailor 1000 Series HF Tx/Rx My vintage valve AM rigs all have bad drift during warm up and aren't that stable once warmed up. There's also the problem that setting the frequency using the TX dial just isn't accurate enough. That would have been fine when AM ruled and you just selected a quite frequency to transmit on, or netted on to someone else's transmission, but it isn't good enough today when SSB predominates the bands. I have a frequency counter loosely coupled to my dummy load and aerial and use that to set and reset the frequency as necessary. It has a 5MHz reference in an oven. Crystal control would avoid the need for that. The number of frequencies used for AM is so few that you could probably buy all the crystals needed for less than the cost of a VFO. As for stability, tune in an AM transmission on a modern SSB set with digital readout and see how far you can off tune before the beat note renders the transmission inaudible. It isn't much. I am of course well aware that digital readouts on amateur equipment aren't always accurate. They depend on the correct trimming of the crystal within the rig. __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

15th Aug 2010, 6:47 pm	#8
David Simpson Nonode Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Aberdeen, UK. Posts: 2,851	Re: Sailor 1000 Series HF Tx/Rx You're right Tim, I'm restricted to 10W PeP with just the Foundation Licence. However, the Sailor 76D has a 10W selection. Quite frankly, its no secret that I'm not heavily into the Ham scene. But I do collect these old vintage Sailor Marine Tx/Rx's which can operate in the A3H Ham bands, just by changing the crystals. Therefore it'll be a lot easier to do transmission & reception tests with Ham &/or licenced Forum guys, than by old contacts in the fishing industry. Just about all vessels are using satcom these days, and most coastal stations have either closed down completely or dont have even a full 24hr watch facility for 2182KHz these days. Right enough, the technical content of the Intermediate exam is way below my old RAF qualifications, but obviously I'll need to gen up on Ham & Ofcom proceedures. That'll be another project for next year prahaps. I did work for a while with marine electronics & kept up contacts on "grandfather rights", but no longer am involved with shore to ship transmissions. Regards, David

15th Aug 2010, 7:20 pm	#9
Sean Williams Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: St.Ippolyts, Hitchin, Hertfordshire QRA IO91UW Posts: 3,517	Re: Sailor 1000 Series HF Tx/Rx David, Im feeling very green, and regretting not travelling to Aberdeen when you offered this now.... Let me know when you are on the air with it, and I will be happy to try a 2 way QSO How about a VFO based on a DDS chip - stability could then be GPS locked if you really fancy a challenge Sean M1ECY __________________ Engineers make things work and have spare bits when finished

15th Aug 2010, 8:39 pm	#10
David Simpson Nonode Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Aberdeen, UK. Posts: 2,851	Re: Sailor 1000 Series HF Tx/Rx Sean, you'd have been very welcome to have visited anytime. Weather or not collecting this old Sailor 1000. We've pleanty of spare room. Word is out via the chap who runs the local salvage yard - that I rescue old equipment from the dreaded skip. So another similar rig might well become available. And quite frankly, I just dont have the room, but would still rescue one. I'll probably just get three or four crystals for the 76D Tx. I dont want to upset Ofcom or strict Ham guys, by inducing any form of frequency instability, even on the few occasions when I do transmit. Sailor claim 0.005% Freq Stab., and harmonic suppression of greater than 50dbs when fitted with decent HC6/U crystals. I'll actually have quite a few ex Sailor crystals spare on offer, once I get round to listing them. Sorting out this Sailor rig & re-building an old Cossor 3339 scope, are my top priorities just now. Regards, David

16th Aug 2010, 9:18 am	#11
Mikebay Rest in Peace Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Leominster, Herefordshire Posts: 174	Re: Sailor 1000 Series HF Tx/Rx David, There is still a lot of AM activity on 3.615, including the Vintage and Military ARS on a Saturday morning. A lot of the sets used are old military equipment, but that is half the fun, keeping an eye on the Tx frequency. Try keeping an old Swan 500C on frequency! Just keep an eye on the frequency, and a lot of fun can be had with the challenge. 73 Mike M0XGG VMARS Member

16th Aug 2010, 10:40 am	#12
David Simpson Nonode Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Aberdeen, UK. Posts: 2,851	Re: Sailor 1000 Series HF Tx/Rx Right enough Mike, now that I remember, I used to listen out on 3615 a couple of years back using the 66TS Rx on manual tune & a temp aerial. My next move in this Sailor 1000 project is to errect the telescopic masts I've had lying in my shed for ages. Regards, David

17th Aug 2010, 2:40 pm	#13
ex seismic Heptode Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tonbridge, Kent, UK. Posts: 686	Re: Sailor 1000 Series HF Tx/Rx Rather than crystals, try a cheaper (and more than one frequency!) Multi-Rock from GW4GTE, provided you don't object to a bit of modern non-valve stuff in there! http://www.s9plus.com/ Gordon. Last edited by Station X; 17th Aug 2010 at 2:59 pm. Reason: Link added.