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Old 6th Nov 2013, 12:47 am   #1
unabridged
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Default Garrard SP25 IIi Stiff Tonearm

Hello all

Have acquired a lovely Garrard Sp25 Mk3 in a Marconiphone plinth (pass on the age, I'm guessing 70's?) Had been sat in a basement for the best part of 15 years.

The tonearm had come away from its mount, however I recovered the mounting screws and reaffixed it.

I cleaned up the dried grease and replaced it, checked everything was free moving, converted from DIN to phono, waxed up the wood, fitted my cartridge and stylus of choice (Ortoforn VMS 30) attached a plug and to my surprise, it all plays very well and to good speed.

However, as the tonearm progresses towards the end of the record, it gets gradually stiffer. To the point where about 2 inch from the centre, the arm simply cannot move anymore, thus the record can't end.

I was wondering if anyone out there my be familiar with this and may be offer a remedy?

Thanks in advice and all the best!

L
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Old 6th Nov 2013, 1:35 am   #2
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Default Re: Garrard SP25 IIi Stiff Tonearm

GRADUALLY stiffer is strange. Check to see that the tonearm wiring isn't caught on something.

Did you service the automatic trip? With time and drying out of grease that's NOT SUPPOSED TO BE THERE (it is supposed to run DRY), the auto trip levers finally stick and when the arm reaches the normal run-out area on the record, it can't push them so it quits tracking...usually quite suddenly. This is a VERY common problem in old Garrards...consider servicing it as part of normal maintenance.

To service a sticking auto trip: Remove the platter. Take off the clip securing the big silver gear and remove the gear. Remove the little clip attaching the upper auto trip pawl and remove the pawl. Remove the identical little clip attaching the shaft of the lower auto trip lever...this is where the works get stuck. Thoroughly degrease and remove all residue from the auto trip lever and pawl. Get rid of ALL the grease that has dried out on the shaft and on the bore it runs in. On the big silver gear, clean off any dried-out grease and especially make sure there is NONE near the auto trip parts. Check the bore in the centre and the shaft on which it rotates, too; make sure they're clean.

In the chassis you will see a sliding stud that pushes the lower auto trip lever when in operation. Clean off any grease that may have gotten on it or on the Delrin low-friction insert that it runs in.

Reassemble the auto trip parts to the big silver gear. Lightly grease the track in the bottom of the gear and the bore on which it rotates. DO NOT GET ANY ON THE AUTO TRIP PARTS.

Reassemble the big silver gear with the gap in its teeth toward the spindle, and the auto trip parts pushed away from the spindle. It should go on easily. Resecure the gear with its clip and with the gear still in the position described, put the platter back on with its retaining clip.
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Old 6th Nov 2013, 6:19 am   #3
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Default Re: Garrard SP25 IIi Stiff Tonearm

Auto trip mechanism diagram:
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Old 6th Nov 2013, 8:52 am   #4
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Default Re: Garrard SP25 IIi Stiff Tonearm

My first thought was tone arm wire catching or has been moved during service and now too tight.
Gaz
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Old 6th Nov 2013, 10:47 am   #5
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Default Re: Garrard SP25 IIi Stiff Tonearm

Sounds like the auto-trip all gummed up and needs stripping and cleaning.
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Old 6th Nov 2013, 11:00 am   #6
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Default Re: Garrard SP25 IIi Stiff Tonearm

I'm impressed by your choice of cartridge, (Ortofon VMS30) especially for use in a SP25 MkIII.

With a recommended tracking force of only 1.3g (range 1.0-1.6g) the trip pawl mechanism will have to be in top order. I would not expect any of my (autoslim based) Garrards of this era to be able to track at this weight.

Alan
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Old 6th Nov 2013, 1:38 pm   #7
unabridged
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Default Re: Garrard SP25 IIi Stiff Tonearm

Hi all and many thanks for your insightful replies - one of the big things I love about this site, everyone is always very forward with diagrams and advice

Truth be told, I am fairly new to doing this kind of thing with turntables. I generally restore much more 'simple' things with no moving parts, lamps etc So really, I got this unit half expecting to break it and learn from it.

I am in fact quite impressed with myself that I got it working so well so far, given that the tonearm came with the deck as a separate unit, and most of the nuts and bolts had called inside the deck

However with this in mind, I don't really know much about it the art of setting up and servicing them, so I will take all of your advice on board one night this week and service the auto mechanism as per the advice.

As for the cartridge and Stylus - really I chose it because I've had it lying around for about 20 years and have just moved it from deck to deck. I have no idea about the recommended weights, and tracking etc - I just spent a long time fiddling with the weight and the adjustment dial until I had it working so it wasn't visibly pressing to hard on the vinyl, but also wasn't to loose. It sounds fine now, as I basically set it so that it was too light and bouncing around, and just gradually increased the weight until it held firm on the vinyl but not so much that it was bending the stylus. It sounds truly great, but it would be interesting to learn more about the setup procedure!

I have attached a photo just for reference - I will let you know what happens once I have followed your instructions
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Old 6th Nov 2013, 9:08 pm   #8
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Default Re: Garrard SP25 IIi Stiff Tonearm

most definately do not use an Ortofon VMS-30E in this deck, it was designed for arms like the SME3009 ultra low mass and capable of tracking at very low tracking weights.
the Shure m44, Goldring G800 etc would be fine in this arm.
If you have got it to play at all it is a miracle good luck
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Old 7th Nov 2013, 3:32 pm   #9
unabridged
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Default Re: Garrard SP25 IIi Stiff Tonearm

Hiya

Really appreciate the advice - I think in time I will go for the Sure one, as I have had decks with these on before and thought it was particularly good! Although I appreciate that the Goldring may be more age related for the turntable.

Although as an aside, to prove that the VMS is producing brilliant sound with no unwanted moving on the vinyl, I will upload a little video of it later
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Old 8th Nov 2013, 12:10 pm   #10
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Default Re: Garrard SP25 IIi Stiff Tonearm

Here you go You can'r hear the sound quality at all as I'm only using a handheld camera - but it did sound good. I ran up a drum and bass record on it from my DJing days, and it shook the photos on my wall Whilst still being excellent full range stereo!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN2y7RusLtU
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Old 8th Nov 2013, 7:15 pm   #11
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Default Re: Garrard SP25 IIi Stiff Tonearm

SP25 Mk III can operate with cartridges tracking at 1.5 grams if everything is perfect. The Garrard factory specified 2 grams but that allows for some aging and time since servicing. If you do intend to run it that light, service it yearly to keep everything tip-top.

The USA Garrard importer (British Industries Corp.) claimed in their sales brochures that the top Autoslim-chassis models could "track flawlessly at 1/2 gram." That certainly was not true and must have been thought up by the advertising department, not verified by the engineers or technical service staff! Those were the days when ADC, the cartridge maker, claimed that one of their cartridges could track at 1/4 gram. Garrard wasn't alone in stretching the truth in the "advertising wars."
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Old 9th Nov 2013, 11:35 am   #12
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Default Re: Garrard SP25 IIi Stiff Tonearm

Watched the vid. That anti skate dial is actually the tracking weight to set up move the dial to 0 then balance the arm using the balance weight at the back so it floats in space then dial up the weight on the wheel. The bias is adjusted on the little slider under the arm. The owners manual can be downloaded from HERE http://www.vinylengine.com/library/garrard/sp-25.shtml just need to join first which is free so no excuses on setting up now, that's probably why it had no problem tracking as it was running at 3 grams or more dependent on the balance weight position.

Hope that helps
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Old 10th Nov 2013, 1:38 pm   #13
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Default Re: Garrard SP25 IIi Stiff Tonearm

VMS30? - NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The VMS30 requires a LOW MASS tonearm and tracks at 1.3g or so. The superb line contact stylus is fussy on alignment too and I'm afraid the SP25 III arm is just not really suitable for it - sorry!

Better to find a VMS10e stylus and track at 1.75g to 2g, or possibly better, an AT95E, which is much safer for the deck as a whole..

The tracking force gauge on the arm is fairly accurate at 2g or so, but the sliding bias lever on the top right corner of the top plate is set far too low. The VMS30 diamond needs loads of correction (made up by arm friction I suspect) and if you're using a 2g tracker, the bias should be set up to 4 or 5 I found after experience with many samples, including one of my own for a good few months back in the 70's.
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Old 20th Nov 2013, 10:16 pm   #14
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Default Re: Garrard SP25 IIi Stiff Tonearm

Cheers guys, I have now sourced the correct stylus and cartridge as recommended above

Yup my error on the anti skate thing - I realised when I started playing with it again that it was a weight adjuster. Shows my experience with this deck

Have also downloaded the manual - thanks for that

However, whilst I have been playing around, I did this, which I'm sure will ruffle some feathers But I did it for a laugh and is obviously now removed
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