New tapemachine came in today (Philips N4450)

[Vinylguru]

Remember Pro12. Very difficult to find one forsale. Found one on ebay right now, so it's not impossible.

[Ted Kendall]

The reason for that is that the Pro12 was an entry level version of the Pro series machines (Pro20,35,36,51,71,etc). Now these, in contrast to the domestic stuff, were very fine machines indeed, with a proper professional design approach, and worth time and trouble to fix.

[ricard]

And by and large Philips produced good consumer-grade stuff, we tend to be a bit harsh 40 years down the line but the gear was never supposed to last that long, in contrast, it shows that Philips really had a good grip on production to optimize the lifespan of the components for the intended lifespan of the machine.

[Ted Kendall]

Originally Posted by Ted Kendall

Too many Philips products are pared down to the minimum, the shining exception being the early CD mechanisms, and consequently fail once their design life is over.

That is exactly my point - domestic stuff value-enginered to the point of absurdity, professional kit built like a tank. All very well unless you have a domestic machine affecting to be professional, as in the N4522.

[Radio Wrangler]

I have a few DC servomotors, complete with tachogenerators which came from dismantled comuter tape drives (1/2 inch, large spools) and the spool tables were mounted straight onto the motor shaft.

Torque for driving spools isn't a matter of whether an AC or DC motor is used, but is a matter of frame size. Scoddy motors need to rev to produce power and need reduction ratio to match the needs of a big spool.

The Papst outer-rotor motor design is very elegant and very robust. It gives particularly good torque given the size and weight of the motor. This was a fundamental matter in its development.

The Papst motor saves on the need for reduction pulleys, belts and separate hub bearings, and assembly time, so the saving on the motor had to be quite significant to make the belt drive approach attractive.

Restoring an N4450 out of curiosity, or for display of the variety of recorders once available, or of the vast range of Philips products is worthwhile. But if you just want a recorder to use, there are easier beasts to tackle.

David

[Michael Maurice]

Originally Posted by Vinylguru

Have been tweaking a little on this deck, and it seems like I need a new reel-motor on the right reel. It have not much torque. Have tried to adjust on the tensionboard, but it was not enough. Also tried to swap the two boards with no luck. So the right motor must be bad.

Have you tried lubricating it? After many years the bearings will be dry making the shaft difficult to turn. Its certainly worth a drop of oil.

[Michael Maurice]

Originally Posted by Ted Kendall

That is exactly my point - domestic stuff value-enginered to the point of absurdity, professional kit built like a tank. All very well unless you have a domestic machine affecting to be professional, as in the N4522.

The Tascam R8 and Model 80 are supposedly professional or at least purported to be, yet the build quality especially the reel drives is laughable.

The Philips machine was comparable in price to the Revox A77 / B77 both of which were far better built than any Philips machine, perhaps the Pro series excepted.

[TIMTAPE]

Originally Posted by Michael Maurice

The Tascam R8 and Model 80 are supposedly professional or at least purported to be, yet the build quality especially the reel drives is laughable.

Michael did you mean Fostex R8 and 80?

[julie_m]

Getting back to the original topic, the N4450 certainly looks a beast! It would surely have been a highly desirable machine, with its appeal as "something you have always promised yourself".

My inner pessimist, though, is just seeing the sheer number of things that can go wrong with it .....

[Radio Wrangler]

There is a lot of 'something you've always promised yourself' going on in this group. I pick up things which I've always fancied when I get the chance. They've come down in price a lot as they turn into junk in many people's eyes, and my income has increased a bit since I was a teenager.

Some of the items I pass on after I've had a good look around them and maybe fixed them. Yup, I really fancied one, but it's not something I actually need or like enough to keep. Other things wind up in the attic and come out to play occasionally. Other things go into the hifi system or the radio shack and become users.

The N4450 can certainly fixed. I once had a guy tell me that the mangled remains of his once pride-and-joy could not possibly be repaired. I told him that it had once been an iron ore deposit, of course it could be repaired, it was a question of whether the cost was worth it.

If vinylguru wants the N4450 because he's always wanted one or because he wants something different from the usual suspects, then he has a reason to sort it out. I don't think it's going to be easy, though.

If he wants the machine because he wants to play and record tapes, then in the words of the famous advice given to someone asking for directions "If I was going there, I wouldn't start from here".

David

[Michael Maurice]

Originally Posted by TIMTAPE

Michael did you mean Fostex R8 and 80?

Yes sorry about that!

[Vinylguru]

Originally Posted by Michael Maurice

Have you tried lubricating it? After many years the bearings will be dry making the shaft difficult to turn. Its certainly worth a drop of oil.

It turns freely, so it's not lack of lube. I'm working on it. Maybe I come up with an idea.

[Vinylguru]

Update.
Have tried to swap around the reelmotors, but the right side is still weak. So the motors must be ok. More research...