When did Superhets turn up in domestic homes?

[dseymo1]

John makes a good point - sets were often - even usually - marketed on valve count ('Super Three', or 'Luxury Six' sort of thing), which worked against the use of 'two-in-one' valves. It was a status symbol, similar to, say, DOHC for car engines: many buyers were unaware of the significance, but were impressed anyway. I'm sure I've seen adverts of the time which used weaselly language to imply that a set used more valves than was strictly the case - counting each 'functional' valve as a seperate device.

[Radio Wrangler]

For many years watches used to claim how many jewels they contained - and there were tax implications.

Radios had their valve count, and many transistor radios had their count written on the front if not made part of the model name right into the seventies.

Cars were named on their horsepower count, carburettor count and camshaft count.

Digital cameras are stuck in a pixel count race.

Six wavebands!!!!!

97 functions!!!!

57 Varieties!!!

It's all natural to the human condition, I fear.

The story I most enjoyed was that when the 'Muse' analogue higher definition TV system was on the go, a Japanese manufacturer had a demo van go round the UK showing the new telly.

The punters really liked the new 16:9 format bt seemed totally unaware of the boost in picture resolution. One common question was 'Would it need a different aerial to be fitted?'

The presenters reassured Mr and Mrs public that no, when the system was rolled out, it would work with their existing aerial. Mr and Mrs public were not reassured, they were disappointed. They wanted a new and different aerial to show he neighbourhood that they had the new type of TV!

David

[AC/HL]

Originally Posted by GMB

This is just a history question.

I was wondering when superhet radios first appeared in the shops. I presume they started as a high-end product.

And by when did they become common, so everyone could buy them?

Has anyone had any thoughts about the second part of GMBs question?

[Radio Wrangler]

TRFs were dominant in the mid twenties when the first superhets appeared. Superhets were dominant by the end of the thirties.

I suppose the question amounts to when did the crossover occur?

Technical developments and their adoption often start slow and then come in with a bang. For domestic radios, judging by what was advertised, I'd say the mid-thirties. The depression would have made the changover hang fire.

David

[turretslug]

I get the impression (and it's only "superficial circumstantial", there are sure to be others here with much greater depth of knowledge and understanding, not to mention the long-established literature on the subject) that there was quite a marked transition between about 1933-1937. At the start of this window, TRFs were still quite widespread and there were various takes on the superhet topology with self-oscillating pentode mixers that were somewhat reminiscent of the AF114 scene 3 decades on often featuring. By the latter date, the triode-hexode seems to have prevailed but with a significant self-oscillating multigrid presence from across the Atlantic representing a basic mainstream line-up that could be recognised up to the end of the valve radio era.

Feel free to correct/enlighten me on a somewhat sweeping/skin-deep treatment of the subject!

[Paul_RK]

Originally Posted by AC/HL

Has anyone had any thoughts about the second part of GMBs question?

I don't think there's a definitive answer, any more than there would be to when "everyone" could afford colour TV: though superhet vs. TRF wasn't nearly so significant a decision of course. But by 1933-4 most manufacturers' standard mains table models were superhets, so the reasonably well off at least would mostly have bought them if only when an existing set was deemed to have reached the end of its life.

TRFs lingered on through the whole of the valve radio era - the various Premier and related kit models, Ever Ready's very basic model 'H' two-valver in the 1950s. Some would have been bought as second sets for kitchen or bedroom, others as their only radio by folk with less cash available or for whom radio wasn't so important a medium. Just as with colour vs. monochrome, income level would only have been one factor among many in determining whether a particular individual or family bought a highly specified radio.

[dseymo1]

The fact that everyone could buy superhets didn't, of course, mean that many people who could, did.
The culture then was different from today's: a radio was very much a considered purchase, and if the existing set performed adequately (and could be repaird economically if necessary) it was unlikely to be replaced just because of the 'new technology'.

[Paul_RK]

In general terms I'd agree, but in the years 1925-35 receiver design and performance were evolving very quickly. I don't think very many people would have continued using, say, a 1927 radio as their main household set in 1933-4 unless diminished circumstances meant they had to. A far cry from today when, give or take the extra possibilities afforded by DAB or internet radio, a 20 or for that matter 40 year old radio may well offer performance hard to improve upon in a new one at any price, along with perfectly straightforward controls.

[PJL]

I bumped into a video of a UK radio collection and he had a 1926 kit built superhet. He commented that there was interest in superhets this early but the introduction of the tetrode meant that TRF's with similar performance could be made with fewer valves.

[dave walsh]

Apologies if this is not relevant but in the early sixties, my widowed Grandma got re-married to a real "old school" but kindly chap who had been an engineer at Rolls Royce in Derby. I'd heard a lot about his very old home built radio that was still in use [a source of amusement] but I only got to see it in his home there twice! I was a bit confused because it was mains powered and seemed very professional looking.

Even though it was on a huge open baseboard [no cabinet] it occupied pride of place in the immaculate dining room. It's appearance was black and silver- tuned mainly to what is now Radio 4 I think-excellent sound. The components were top quality with large coil units in shiny copper? covers. I was just getting to grips with superhet designs at the time and assumed it was a TRF with Bandspread but as I recall, it was an un-ganged SH. You set the left hand dial and fine tuned with the right. I didn't quite understand it at the time but years later saw amateur band RX's designed like this to avoid [as I then grasped] the need for fixed alignment and the complications involved. I think FC Judd built something like that in the fifties.

My guess now was that it would probaly have been from the thirties but to me [then] it seemed earlier apart from the modern circuitry. Perhaps Harry had built it across the two decades. I suppose I could be wrong and it was perhaps one of the complex "Bandpass" Scott T designs or something like that but I do seem to remember being confused by the fact that it was a S Het. When he died I did try to ask about the set [fearing it would not survive either] but "his" family had removed it and I never found out what happened after that I really have no other info but I hope this story may be of interest.
Dave W

[G6Tanuki]

Originally Posted by Paul_RK

In general terms I'd agree, but in the years 1925-35 receiver design and performance were evolving very quickly. I don't think very many people would have continued using, say, a 1927 radio as their main household set in 1933-4 unless diminished circumstances meant they had to.

It's also worth considering running costs: a lot of pre-1930s radios were battery-powered, and LT batteries were big/expensive/clumsy/leaky things needing pretty-much weekly trips to the local garage/blacksmiths/radio-shop for recharging, at sixpence or a shilling a time.

HT batteries, equally, were pricey: according to a catalog I have here a 1934 Ever Ready 108-volt HT battery (with taps) sold for 11 Shillings and could be expected to last for 3 months.

The spread of mains-power to more and more urban working-class households offered them the chance to upgrade their old battery-powered radios to an "all-electric" model and so avoid the battery-hassles and costs - even if the radio had to be plugged into a light-bulb pendant outlet using a 2-way bayonet adaptor (the electric iron often having claim on the other leg of the adaptor).

When you're no longer tied to batteries, you're likely to consider radios with more valves and higher-powered, better-quality output stages, along with expecting things like AGC to deal with the dark-hours fading issues.

[boxdoctor]

Dseymo1's comments in post #20 struck a chord with me.
In the early 1970's I looked after the TV at a comfortably-off elderly lady's house in a nearby village. One day the mention of a neighbour was made, who was also one of my clients. "Oh the xxx's think they are very posh. - Very eight-valve!" She commented. So it seems the number of valves in your 'wireless' at that time was perhaps considered some measure of one's affluence.
I have often thought about that incident with a quiet chuckle.... Tony.

[Mike. Watterson]

About 1926. More common in USA than Europe. Then due to RCA enforcing patents / royalty (they shouldn't have had the patent as it was mathematics and a French invention in about 1917 or 1918, The mathematical idea was understood earlier!) the built sets replaced by kits. Then they vanish*. 1934 / 1935 they return as some makes use a pentode as a self oscillating mixer to save a valve (like VHF Triode Osc/Mixer and later transistor sets actually). Some used Triode Osc and Pentode Mixer before Octodes and Triode-Hexodes became common.
Marconi / EMI of course were connected vaguely with RCA (see origin of HMV and Victor Talking Machine and Marconi original shareholder in RCA, then Marconi has EMI (the post 1928 HMV and UK Columbia owner) take brand for Domestic sets. Telefunken takes licence for RCA patents. Philips doesn't, hence the long use of TRF by Philips / Mullard.
So Superhets not common in Europe, UK, US till 1935, TRFs survive in a few models even till 1950 I think. Many UK TRF up till 1938.
But a friend has one of the domestic 1926 Superhets. He was surprised, he assumed it was a TRF. Sadly no valves in it. It was six triodes. One was L.O. and another was mixer.

Pentodes for IF amp and a diode detector rather than Triode detector with Pentode Audio amp (often Semiconductor in 1935!) made the Superhet economically viable again.

[* I theorise that they vanish because the RF Tetrode, AKA "S.G." or Screen Grid valve as RF preamp, triode detector with Regeneration and a triode audio amp with dual RF tuning was a cheap good performance radio compared to superhet. I have two from 1929 with SG RF tetrode, triode Det. and Audio amp. They are quite good enough at night and the McMichael suitcase one has 4th triode to drive speaker. It beats modern pocket AM transistor set. The three valve one has separate RF tuning on input and output of SG valve. The McMichael has ganged RF tuning and a separate offset tuner.]