Help needed faulty - 1970's Fidelity record player - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

richardholst · 18th Nov 2009, 5:10 pm

Hi everyone,

I am looking for some help with a problem I am having with a 1970's Fidelity record player I bought.

First of all I have never had a record player before and have never done any repairs to audio equipment so please be basic with any suggestions.

The Players details;

It is a 1970's Fidelity record player, an all in one portable player, I don't know which model.

It is a mono player, has valves and a BSR 004A type record player fitted.

So the main problem is that when I play a record on a low volume the sound is all crackly and distorted but when I increase the volume the sound is ok so any idea's?

The secondary problem is the auto button does not do anything, not sure if I am doing some thing wrong or it is faulty.

Any help would be great.

Cheers,

Richard.

Michael Maurice · 18th Nov 2009, 10:25 pm

Hi Richard and welcome to the forum.

It would be helpful to have the model number.

Valved equipment suffers bad capacitors, especially coupling capacitors, ideally all the coupling capacitors should be replaced, there cant be that many of them. A check to ensure resistors are within tollerence is also a good idea. Switch cleaner on the volume and tone controls wouldn't go amiss either.

The record player deck is almost certainly suffering from dried up grease and will have to be stripped, cleaned and relubricated. The later decks, (mid 60's onwards) are much easier to service in this respect.

With the model number to hand you may find the service data for that model on this site, go to the top of the screen and click on instant downloads.

Michael

richardholst · 19th Nov 2009, 11:02 am

Hi Michael,

Any Ideas how I can find out the model ? it does not have anything on the box ..

Also a Update ...I was playing it last night and I think I can refine the problem ...it seems to play fine for one side of the record then when I turn it over it goes all crackly and distorted ..I thought it was the volume that was the problem ..but it looks like it a time thing ..so after a while it stops working ...

any idea's anybody ?

cheers

Richard

Nickthedentist · 19th Nov 2009, 11:20 am

Can you post a picture?

Michael Maurice · 19th Nov 2009, 11:25 am

Richard, do you know how to remove the covers and take pictures of the amplifier?

We need pictures of both the deck and the amplifier and also the valve line up.

Do you have any knowledge of repairing equipment?

Please be very careful when dismantling, Valves use high voltages and you could get a shock.

As to your problem, you could have a capacitor breaking down or a resistor going open circuit or just high in value.

richardholst · 19th Nov 2009, 11:26 am

ok so I did some more checking and it maybe a 60's player ..here is a link to a you tube video of a very similar player

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-xk__1eBzc

richardholst · 19th Nov 2009, 12:10 pm

I can remove the front cover ..I have done it before ...that's how I know it has valves ..

Nope I have not repaired any equipment before ..but I am a computer Tech and don't mind doing a bit of work just as long as I am not going to make things worse ...

when I looked there was a speaker then the valves then a small circuit board ..but seems very crude and simple ..

I can try get some pictures

Nickthedentist · 19th Nov 2009, 1:55 pm

The one in the YouTube link could be 60s or 70s. Fidelity made several very similar models with valves, then transistors, and even an IC (chip).

richardholst · 19th Nov 2009, 2:45 pm

I will open it up tonight and take photos ..what do you need photos of ?

richardholst · 19th Nov 2009, 2:58 pm

Right. Well I found for the same record player ...mine is red ..but it is the same model ...anybody know what model it is ?

Darren-UK · 19th Nov 2009, 3:42 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by richardholst

Also a Update ...I was playing it last night and I think I can refine the problem ...it seems to play fine for one side of the record then when I turn it over it goes all crackly and distorted ..I thought it was the volume that was the problem ..but it looks like it a time thing ..so after a while it stops working ...

Just a thought, but what happens if you play the 'good' side, turn over and play the 'bad' side......then go back and play the 'good' side again? I'm wondering if you simply have a record which is knackered and/or dirty on one side.

Crucial to this suggestion; have you tried it with only the one record or several? You're not clear on that point. If the machine goes faulty with any record then the fault will be internal, if the fault appears when you've tried it with only one record then it could just be a duff record.

Nickthedentist · 19th Nov 2009, 3:54 pm

If you can tell us what valve types are fitted, you should be able to get a circuit diagram.

Paul Stenning has sheets for various models from the HF16 to the HF28 etc.

Nick.

julie_m · 19th Nov 2009, 5:06 pm

Ooooh! That's a rare changer! It's a BSR alright, but it's the sort that uses a rising sensor for the record size. This enabled them to have a shorter spindle than with the previous drop sensor. It was never very successful, though, and was soon replaced by the 12-10-7 switch.

Anyway. If there are two valves and just a simple tone control (aot separate treble and bass controls), then they'll almost certainly be UY85 and UL84; with HT from the mains, and the heaters powered from a tap on the motor stator. There will probably be only five capacitors (of which three will be electrolytics) and three resistors; you may as well replace the lot.

Note that the capacitor connected between the exposed metalwork of the record deck and mains neutral must be a special "class Y" type.

While you've got the machine in bits, take the opportunity to give the pots and the valve sockets a good squirt of contact cleaner.

Nickthedentist · 19th Nov 2009, 5:18 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajs_derby

Ooooh! That's a rare changer! It's a BSR alright, but it's the sort that uses a rising sensor for the record size. This enabled them to have a shorter spindle than with the previous drop sensor. It was never very successful, though, and was soon replaced by the 12-10-7

Well spotted!

I missed the absence of the 12/10/7 switch and Magidisk selector ("flipper").

Any idea of the model number so we can add it to the BSR changer ID thread?

Nick.

richardholst · 19th Nov 2009, 5:42 pm

I have tried at least 3 different records ...and last night played a brand new record I bought ..aka current release in sealed plastic ...

I played the side 1 ..and it was fine ...then ..played side 2 and problem happened ..I then switched it off and replayed side 1 same problem ... so I am sure it is not the record ...

I want to try again and see if it is power related ..I.E it has been unplugged for a time and then it works again ...is this even possible ..can the components hold the charge ..if so how long would you recommend I leave it unplugged to run tests ...

I will open it up and take photos tonight any components that need special attention ..

I know it is a secondary thing but any ideas on the auto changer ....

Darren-UK · 19th Nov 2009, 5:56 pm

Ah well, it was just a thought but at least it's ruled out and the amp can be concentrated on.

"Auto button" as per post #1. Assuming you do indeed have the same deck as shown in post #10, the switch is moved to Start and then moved to Auto against spring pressure. Once released, the spring will return the switch to the Start position. Is that happening?

When using Auto mode, you may need to hold the switch in the Auto position until the mechanism kicks in and the tonearm begins to lift - and then release it. Are you doing that?

richardholst · 19th Nov 2009, 6:04 pm

hi Darren ..on the auto changer ...no I will try tonight ...this maybe a stupid comment but just to be clear ...

1.So I put the record on the turn table ...
2.move the switch into the start position
3.then Hold the switch in the auto position till I hear a tone

..say max 30 secs ..if nothing happens then it is broken ?

Darren-UK · 19th Nov 2009, 6:15 pm

Wrong in respect of question 1. Place record on stacking spindle and swing overarm into position. If you dump a record straight onto the turntable the Auto function will not operate, unless the overarm is swung clear of the turntable in which case repeat play comes into operation.

On question three, move switch to Auto and after a second or two you'll hear the mechanism activate itself, then the tonearm will lift off its rest. Well that's what should happen anyway. Try those things this evening and let us know the outcome.

Remember, however, that a fault probably exists on the amp; dodgy capacitors maybe (there may only be the odd one, apart from the main can) or perhaps a dodgy o/p valve, so that ought to be attended to first.

Record decks seldom get "broken" unless the phantom has been in there. As has been said, dried up grease is the usual cause of mechanical problems. Sometimes springs can go weak or even break of their own accord but this is quite rare.

richardholst · 19th Nov 2009, 6:21 pm

thanks Darren ..got it will try tonight ...and update tomorrow ...

Darren-UK · 19th Nov 2009, 6:32 pm

Good luck and yes, let us know in as much detail as you can regarding what it will and will not do.

If the auto mechanism tries to cut in but the whole caboodle slows down and stops, give the turntable a bit of a push to help it on its way. If you have to do this, you've a dried up grease or idler wheel problem. If on the other hand the auto mechanism is indeed faulty we'll have to start again.

As I said earlier, don't neglect that possibly faulty amp in favour of the deck mechanics.

18th Nov 2009, 10:25 pm	#2
Michael Maurice Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Wembley, Middlesex Posts: 7,224	Re: Help needed faulty - 1970's Fidelity record player Hi Richard and welcome to the forum. It would be helpful to have the model number. Valved equipment suffers bad capacitors, especially coupling capacitors, ideally all the coupling capacitors should be replaced, there cant be that many of them. A check to ensure resistors are within tollerence is also a good idea. Switch cleaner on the volume and tone controls wouldn't go amiss either. The record player deck is almost certainly suffering from dried up grease and will have to be stripped, cleaned and relubricated. The later decks, (mid 60's onwards) are much easier to service in this respect. With the model number to hand you may find the service data for that model on this site, go to the top of the screen and click on instant downloads. Michael

19th Nov 2009, 11:02 am	#3
richardholst Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: North London Posts: 12	Re: Help needed faulty - 1970's Fidelity record player Hi Michael, Any Ideas how I can find out the model ? it does not have anything on the box .. Also a Update ...I was playing it last night and I think I can refine the problem ...it seems to play fine for one side of the record then when I turn it over it goes all crackly and distorted ..I thought it was the volume that was the problem ..but it looks like it a time thing ..so after a while it stops working ... any idea's anybody ? cheers Richard

19th Nov 2009, 11:20 am	#4
Nickthedentist Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 17,846	Re: Help needed faulty - 1970's Fidelity record player Can you post a picture?

19th Nov 2009, 11:25 am	#5
Michael Maurice Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Wembley, Middlesex Posts: 7,224	Re: Help needed faulty - 1970's Fidelity record player Richard, do you know how to remove the covers and take pictures of the amplifier? We need pictures of both the deck and the amplifier and also the valve line up. Do you have any knowledge of repairing equipment? Please be very careful when dismantling, Valves use high voltages and you could get a shock. As to your problem, you could have a capacitor breaking down or a resistor going open circuit or just high in value.

19th Nov 2009, 11:26 am	#6
richardholst Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: North London Posts: 12	Re: Help needed faulty - 1970's Fidelity record player ok so I did some more checking and it maybe a 60's player ..here is a link to a you tube video of a very similar player http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-xk__1eBzc

18th Nov 2009, 5:10 pm	#1
richardholst Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: North London Posts: 12	Help needed faulty - 1970's Fidelity record player Hi everyone, I am looking for some help with a problem I am having with a 1970's Fidelity record player I bought. First of all I have never had a record player before and have never done any repairs to audio equipment so please be basic with any suggestions. The Players details; It is a 1970's Fidelity record player, an all in one portable player, I don't know which model. It is a mono player, has valves and a BSR 004A type record player fitted. So the main problem is that when I play a record on a low volume the sound is all crackly and distorted but when I increase the volume the sound is ok so any idea's? The secondary problem is the auto button does not do anything, not sure if I am doing some thing wrong or it is faulty. Any help would be great. Cheers, Richard. Last edited by Brian R Pateman; 18th Nov 2009 at 6:32 pm. Reason: FRC

19th Nov 2009, 12:10 pm	#7
richardholst Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: North London Posts: 12	Re: Help needed faulty - 1970's Fidelity record player I can remove the front cover ..I have done it before ...that's how I know it has valves .. Nope I have not repaired any equipment before ..but I am a computer Tech and don't mind doing a bit of work just as long as I am not going to make things worse ... when I looked there was a speaker then the valves then a small circuit board ..but seems very crude and simple .. I can try get some pictures

19th Nov 2009, 1:55 pm	#8
Nickthedentist Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 17,846	Re: Help needed faulty - 1970's Fidelity record player The one in the YouTube link could be 60s or 70s. Fidelity made several very similar models with valves, then transistors, and even an IC (chip).

19th Nov 2009, 2:45 pm	#9
richardholst Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: North London Posts: 12	Re: Help needed faulty - 1970's Fidelity record player I will open it up tonight and take photos ..what do you need photos of ?

19th Nov 2009, 2:58 pm	#10
richardholst Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: North London Posts: 12	Re: Help needed faulty - 1970's Fidelity record player Right. Well I found for the same record player ...mine is red ..but it is the same model ...anybody know what model it is ? Attached Thumbnails Last edited by Station X; 19th Nov 2009 at 3:29 pm. Reason: TCWR

19th Nov 2009, 3:54 pm	#12
Nickthedentist Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 17,846	Re: Help needed faulty - 1970's Fidelity record player If you can tell us what valve types are fitted, you should be able to get a circuit diagram. Paul Stenning has sheets for various models from the HF16 to the HF28 etc. Nick.

19th Nov 2009, 5:06 pm	#13
julie_m Dekatron Join Date: May 2008 Location: Derby, UK. Posts: 7,735	Re: Help needed faulty - 1970's Fidelity record player Ooooh! That's a rare changer! It's a BSR alright, but it's the sort that uses a rising sensor for the record size. This enabled them to have a shorter spindle than with the previous drop sensor. It was never very successful, though, and was soon replaced by the 12-10-7 switch. Anyway. If there are two valves and just a simple tone control (aot separate treble and bass controls), then they'll almost certainly be UY85 and UL84; with HT from the mains, and the heaters powered from a tap on the motor stator. There will probably be only five capacitors (of which three will be electrolytics) and three resistors; you may as well replace the lot. Note that the capacitor connected between the exposed metalwork of the record deck and mains neutral must be a special "class Y" type. While you've got the machine in bits, take the opportunity to give the pots and the valve sockets a good squirt of contact cleaner. __________________ If I have seen further than others, it is because I was standing on a pile of failed experiments.

19th Nov 2009, 5:42 pm	#15
richardholst Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: North London Posts: 12	Re: Help needed faulty - 1970's Fidelity record player I have tried at least 3 different records ...and last night played a brand new record I bought ..aka current release in sealed plastic ... I played the side 1 ..and it was fine ...then ..played side 2 and problem happened ..I then switched it off and replayed side 1 same problem ... so I am sure it is not the record ... I want to try again and see if it is power related ..I.E it has been unplugged for a time and then it works again ...is this even possible ..can the components hold the charge ..if so how long would you recommend I leave it unplugged to run tests ... I will open it up and take photos tonight any components that need special attention .. I know it is a secondary thing but any ideas on the auto changer ....

19th Nov 2009, 5:56 pm	#16
Darren-UK Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Blackpool, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 4,061	Re: Help needed faulty - 1970's Fidelity record player Ah well, it was just a thought but at least it's ruled out and the amp can be concentrated on. "Auto button" as per post #1. Assuming you do indeed have the same deck as shown in post #10, the switch is moved to Start and then moved to Auto against spring pressure. Once released, the spring will return the switch to the Start position. Is that happening? When using Auto mode, you may need to hold the switch in the Auto position until the mechanism kicks in and the tonearm begins to lift - and then release it. Are you doing that?

19th Nov 2009, 6:04 pm	#17
richardholst Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: North London Posts: 12	Re: Help needed faulty - 1970's Fidelity record player hi Darren ..on the auto changer ...no I will try tonight ...this maybe a stupid comment but just to be clear ... 1.So I put the record on the turn table ... 2.move the switch into the start position 3.then Hold the switch in the auto position till I hear a tone ..say max 30 secs ..if nothing happens then it is broken ?

19th Nov 2009, 6:15 pm	#18
Darren-UK Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Blackpool, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 4,061	Re: Help needed faulty - 1970's Fidelity record player Wrong in respect of question 1. Place record on stacking spindle and swing overarm into position. If you dump a record straight onto the turntable the Auto function will not operate, unless the overarm is swung clear of the turntable in which case repeat play comes into operation. On question three, move switch to Auto and after a second or two you'll hear the mechanism activate itself, then the tonearm will lift off its rest. Well that's what should happen anyway. Try those things this evening and let us know the outcome. Remember, however, that a fault probably exists on the amp; dodgy capacitors maybe (there may only be the odd one, apart from the main can) or perhaps a dodgy o/p valve, so that ought to be attended to first. Record decks seldom get "broken" unless the phantom has been in there. As has been said, dried up grease is the usual cause of mechanical problems. Sometimes springs can go weak or even break of their own accord but this is quite rare.

19th Nov 2009, 6:21 pm	#19
richardholst Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: North London Posts: 12	Re: Help needed faulty - 1970's Fidelity record player thanks Darren ..got it will try tonight ...and update tomorrow ...

19th Nov 2009, 6:32 pm	#20
Darren-UK Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Blackpool, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 4,061	Re: Help needed faulty - 1970's Fidelity record player Good luck and yes, let us know in as much detail as you can regarding what it will and will not do. If the auto mechanism tries to cut in but the whole caboodle slows down and stops, give the turntable a bit of a push to help it on its way. If you have to do this, you've a dried up grease or idler wheel problem. If on the other hand the auto mechanism is indeed faulty we'll have to start again. As I said earlier, don't neglect that possibly faulty amp in favour of the deck mechanics.