My BSR Monarch autochanger is running a little slow - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Docefcuk · 23rd Jun 2017, 7:23 am

Hello all,

Have found this forum of great use in identifying this piece of kit we bought off an elderly friend of a relative. It is either a BSR UA15 or 14 and it appears to have been retrofitted into the radiogram. We had it serviced locally when we got it but it did not solve an issue that has actually got worse. The speed alternates, I have used some WD40 to try to make it smoother but the wheel (forgive me for not knowing technical terms) actually seems to be catching on the side.

Any help would be much appreciated, especially seeing as I bought my dad the Sgt Peppers 50th Anniversary edition LP for father's day. Have attached a link to some pictures and a short video.

https://goo.gl/photos/hn4v6UmD7D4vQWcA7

Edward Huggins · 23rd Jun 2017, 11:07 am

You deck is a BSR UA25. Clean the edge of the idler wheel and inside of the turntable rim with isopropyl alcohol. Reassemble and see how it runs.

'LIVEWIRE?' · 23rd Jun 2017, 11:22 am

That's almost certainly a UA14, and it may be original to the Radiogram (don't know what make or model that is, btw). The idler wheel will catch on the inside of the deck plate without the turntable on. The usual instruction is to set the deck to 45RPM in the mechanically switched off condition, then fit the turntable. It's possible that the bushes (grommets) on the motor mountin plate have sagged, so that the motor sits too low down. Replacing these with standard grommets of a suitable diameter & thickness should solve that problem. The idler wheel should sit centrally on each step of the motor pulley. In addition the 'sticky' threads at the head of this section give advice on how to rectify most problems with autochangers.

Docefcuk · 23rd Jun 2017, 12:03 pm

Thanks for your help, all makes perfect sense, will have a look over the weekend.

I have contemplated stripping it out and putting modern systems inside and keeping the cabinet to fit the interior design of the retro room.

Edward Huggins · 23rd Jun 2017, 2:07 pm

Your Radiogram is a budget c.1966 ALBA, mono model with AM only radio. It only has provision for one speaker so will not readily adapt for stereo use as you implied. Your autochanger is definately a BSR UA25 and it is fitted with a stereo-compatible catridge which will be fairly kind to any stereo LP.

paulsherwin · 23rd Jun 2017, 2:09 pm

No need for drastic measures. It should be reasonably easy to fit an input for an external source such as a CD or MP3 player, but we would need to know the model of the radiogram before advising on that. There may be a 'tape' input already present which you could use.

Tom_I · 23rd Jun 2017, 2:57 pm

First of all, this deck is a UA25, as Edward said in post #2.

Looking at the pictures linked to in the original post, what concerns me is the centre bearing. It's clearest in the video, but it looks to me as if there is just a single thrust washer for the platter to sit on. That can't be right, can it? Shouldn't there be a ball race and another couple of washers as well?

If someone here has a parts list or diagram for this deck, perhaps they could confirm this, as I may be wrong, but if I'm not, then it looks as if you are missing three out of the four bits shown in the photo.

If so, then that is the problem, as the platter will be sitting too low, and probably grounding out at some point on its circumference.

It also looks as if the trip pawl mechanism has been greased. It should have no lubrication at all. I don't want to sound disparaging, but could it be that whoever serviced the deck did not really know what they were doing?

Docefcuk · 23rd Jun 2017, 3:10 pm

Thanks for all the help, when I implied that I might strip everything out I also meant the dials and front panel, I have a 3D printer and have contemplated making a fascia that adds a proper amp into that slot, buying a single mono speaker to sit next to it.

'LIVEWIRE?' · 23rd Jun 2017, 6:40 pm

All BSR autochangers of which I know do indeed have the ball race and two thrust washers, one above, and one below the ball race.

Clydeuk · 23rd Jun 2017, 7:14 pm

I can't see any evidence of it from the pictures, but since you mentioned it, you should definitely not spray WD40 anywhere on this, and certainly nowhere near the rubber idler wheel and motor.

If you've got WD40 anywhere near the idler wheel, motor steps or turntable rim, this will need to be thoroughly cleaned off with something like IPA. Any WD40 in this area will affect the transfer from the motor to the turntable and cause slippage and speed fluctuation.

I suggest you have a good read through the sticky threads which will have recommendations on how to properly clean and lubricate the mechanism.

23rd Jun 2017, 7:23 am	#1
Docefcuk Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Wallasey, Merseyside, UK. Posts: 3	My BSR Monarch autochanger is running a little slow Hello all, Have found this forum of great use in identifying this piece of kit we bought off an elderly friend of a relative. It is either a BSR UA15 or 14 and it appears to have been retrofitted into the radiogram. We had it serviced locally when we got it but it did not solve an issue that has actually got worse. The speed alternates, I have used some WD40 to try to make it smoother but the wheel (forgive me for not knowing technical terms) actually seems to be catching on the side. Any help would be much appreciated, especially seeing as I bought my dad the Sgt Peppers 50th Anniversary edition LP for father's day. Have attached a link to some pictures and a short video. https://goo.gl/photos/hn4v6UmD7D4vQWcA7

23rd Jun 2017, 11:22 am	#3
'LIVEWIRE?' Rest in Peace Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: N.W. Oxfordshire(Chipping Norton) Posts: 7,306	Re: My BSR Monarch autochanger is running a little slow That's almost certainly a UA14, and it may be original to the Radiogram (don't know what make or model that is, btw). The idler wheel will catch on the inside of the deck plate without the turntable on. The usual instruction is to set the deck to 45RPM in the mechanically switched off condition, then fit the turntable. It's possible that the bushes (grommets) on the motor mountin plate have sagged, so that the motor sits too low down. Replacing these with standard grommets of a suitable diameter & thickness should solve that problem. The idler wheel should sit centrally on each step of the motor pulley. In addition the 'sticky' threads at the head of this section give advice on how to rectify most problems with autochangers.

23rd Jun 2017, 12:03 pm	#4
Docefcuk Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Wallasey, Merseyside, UK. Posts: 3	Re: My BSR Monarch autochanger is running a little slow Thanks for your help, all makes perfect sense, will have a look over the weekend. I have contemplated stripping it out and putting modern systems inside and keeping the cabinet to fit the interior design of the retro room.

23rd Jun 2017, 2:07 pm	#5
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,327	Re: My BSR Monarch autochanger is running a little slow Your Radiogram is a budget c.1966 ALBA, mono model with AM only radio. It only has provision for one speaker so will not readily adapt for stereo use as you implied. Your autochanger is definately a BSR UA25 and it is fitted with a stereo-compatible catridge which will be fairly kind to any stereo LP. __________________ Edward.

23rd Jun 2017, 2:09 pm	#6
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,944	Re: My BSR Monarch autochanger is running a little slow No need for drastic measures. It should be reasonably easy to fit an input for an external source such as a CD or MP3 player, but we would need to know the model of the radiogram before advising on that. There may be a 'tape' input already present which you could use.

23rd Jun 2017, 11:07 am	#2
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,327	Re: My BSR Monarch autochanger is running a little slow You deck is a BSR UA25. Clean the edge of the idler wheel and inside of the turntable rim with isopropyl alcohol. Reassemble and see how it runs. __________________ Edward.

23rd Jun 2017, 2:57 pm	#7
Tom_I Heptode Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: North Herts. UK. Posts: 549	Re: My BSR Monarch autochanger is running a little slow First of all, this deck is a UA25, as Edward said in post #2. Looking at the pictures linked to in the original post, what concerns me is the centre bearing. It's clearest in the video, but it looks to me as if there is just a single thrust washer for the platter to sit on. That can't be right, can it? Shouldn't there be a ball race and another couple of washers as well? If someone here has a parts list or diagram for this deck, perhaps they could confirm this, as I may be wrong, but if I'm not, then it looks as if you are missing three out of the four bits shown in the photo. If so, then that is the problem, as the platter will be sitting too low, and probably grounding out at some point on its circumference. It also looks as if the trip pawl mechanism has been greased. It should have no lubrication at all. I don't want to sound disparaging, but could it be that whoever serviced the deck did not really know what they were doing? Attached Thumbnails

23rd Jun 2017, 3:10 pm	#8
Docefcuk Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Wallasey, Merseyside, UK. Posts: 3	Re: My BSR Monarch autochanger is running a little slow Thanks for all the help, when I implied that I might strip everything out I also meant the dials and front panel, I have a 3D printer and have contemplated making a fascia that adds a proper amp into that slot, buying a single mono speaker to sit next to it.

23rd Jun 2017, 6:40 pm	#9
'LIVEWIRE?' Rest in Peace Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: N.W. Oxfordshire(Chipping Norton) Posts: 7,306	Re: My BSR Monarch autochanger is running a little slow All BSR autochangers of which I know do indeed have the ball race and two thrust washers, one above, and one below the ball race.

23rd Jun 2017, 7:14 pm	#10
Clydeuk Hexode Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Liverpool, Merseyside, UK. Posts: 453	Re: My BSR Monarch autochanger is running a little slow I can't see any evidence of it from the pictures, but since you mentioned it, you should definitely not spray WD40 anywhere on this, and certainly nowhere near the rubber idler wheel and motor. If you've got WD40 anywhere near the idler wheel, motor steps or turntable rim, this will need to be thoroughly cleaned off with something like IPA. Any WD40 in this area will affect the transfer from the motor to the turntable and cause slippage and speed fluctuation. I suggest you have a good read through the sticky threads which will have recommendations on how to properly clean and lubricate the mechanism.