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Old 14th Jun 2017, 11:04 pm   #21
Craig Sawyers
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Default Re: Grease

There is talk of silicone greases in relation to record decks and autochangers.

There are several problems with it. First, there is no known solvent for the stuff - once on, even if wiped off, a layer always remains. Second, it gets on your fingers, and until the surface skin wears off you will transfer the stuff to everything you touch - such as a record, CD, spectacle lenses, contact lenses, dog and cat - you get the drift. And once on - no solvent will remove.

The only way to get the stuff off a surface is to use plasma etching - not something any of us not in a research lab are likely to have kicking around.

Stick to mineral lubricating greases and oils - then IPA (or acetone, if compatible with the materials used) will shift it a treat.

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Old 14th Jun 2017, 11:17 pm   #22
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Default Re: Grease

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Originally Posted by Nickthedentist View Post
You have to be a bit careful - that grease is available in a regular synthetic grease with pfte, AND a silicone version.

So get the regular synthetic and avoid the silicone version like the plague (see earlier post)
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Old 14th Jun 2017, 11:30 pm   #23
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Default Re: Grease

This is one that will definitely do the job, Apiezon M. http://www.apiezon.com/products/vacuum-greases/m-grease This is a vacuum compatible grease, but is also used with precision mechanisms. Non-hardening, non tarring, not cheap - Euro 116 for a 100g tube.

Does it work? You bet. I purged all silicone greases in my last place of work - went around with a bin and went from drawer to drawer dumping it all. Then I took it to the skip in the corner of the car park. All the loctite went the same way (use the correct form of lockwasher fellas - I'll tell you what type - and then use a torque screwdriver - I'll buy the right type and I'll tell you what torques to use).

I bought a single tube of Apiezon M for them maybe four years ago - and they are still working through it.
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Old 15th Jun 2017, 12:35 am   #24
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Default Re: Grease

There are plenty of PTFE greases available from eBay sellers if you search. I have no experience with any of them, but that's where I'd look if I was planning to buy something.
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Old 17th Jun 2017, 12:34 am   #25
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Default Re: Grease

A very interesting thread as a couple of old garrards and bsr's that I've had for over 20 years and fully serviced them all that time ago are now getting a little sticky in operation.

So it's time to service them again and make the right choice of lubrication.

I also need to service the mech on my rockola 478 juke and have put it off for years as it always works faultlessly.

So it sounds like a general purpose grease with ptfe (not silicone) for sliding and meshing parts, clock or sewing machine oil for motor shafts and idlers and trip pawls completely dry....is this right?

Also, has anyone tried good old petroleum jelly or is this a problem in the making?
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Old 17th Jun 2017, 12:51 am   #26
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Default Re: Grease

This sort of machinery isn't very fussy about oil types. You just need a light to medium viscosity oil which won't evaporate or gum up. Sewing machine oil is OK, but so is automotive engine oil, especially the low viscosity synthetic types, so if you have some of that in the garage then use it.

You can make a good general purpose light machine oil by mixing 40% 20/50 automotive mineral oil, 40% generic baby oil, and 20% paraffin/kerosene or diesel. Reduce the paraffin if you don't want it to creep, and reduce the baby oil if you want it more viscous. It does tend to smell a bit strange because of the perfumes in the baby oil.

Petroleum jelly is quite a good alternative to grease for sliding surfaces.
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Old 17th Jun 2017, 11:56 am   #27
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Petroleum jelly is probably less suitable for long-term bearing lubrication because it is a pure hydrocarbon and does not include the soap that is an essential component of lubricating greases to make sure the oil stays put and does not flow away from the bearing surfaces under pressure. Vaseline will flow under pressure, which is probably why it was used in a traditional way of making satisfactory low resistance bolted joints to aluminium bus bars. The recommended method was to apply a thick coat of Vaseline to the surfaces to be joined, file the surfaces through the Vaseline to expose unoxidised metal, and then bolt together without removing the dirty Vaseline.

When I was a student we once had a lecture given by the Mechanical Engineering department on friction and lubrication, and it was said that the mechanism of friction was poorly understood.

It seems to be a case of "horses for courses". On a visit to our local windmill's open day, the Essex windmill wright ( I think that was his title) mentioned that they had had problems with reliable lubrication of the wooden gears ( I think the teeth were generally made of Lignum Vitae wood) . Modern greases were not effective, and eventually they tried the traditional pork fat. He now took a side of fatty pork with him and wiped the gear teeth with that when servicing.
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Old 17th Jun 2017, 5:28 pm   #28
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Default Re: Grease

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Originally Posted by paulsherwin View Post
It does tend to smell a bit strange because of the perfumes in the baby oil.
Thank you! I wrote down the proportions of "Paul's Mixture" some time ago and have been searching fruitlessly for unscented baby oil in local shops. Now I know that the generic stuff is fine I'll use that.

Just a bit worried though that it'll bring back 30 year old memories of changing nappies!

Hugh
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Old 17th Jun 2017, 5:40 pm   #29
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Default Re: Grease

Just don't store it in the Baby Oil bottle, could be a bit dramatic if you get confused!
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Old 17th Jun 2017, 8:58 pm   #30
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Default Re: Grease

The last time I bought some I think it was Tesco Value. If you've actually got a baby you can steal a bit of whatever you have to hand.

I didn't invent the mixture - it's quite well known in the modelling world.
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Old 17th Jun 2017, 10:28 pm   #31
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Default Re: Grease

Baby oil is purfumed liquid paraffin, ie the stuff that makes you 'go' not what you put in oil lamps.

As for where to get baby oil, I got a bottle of Johnson's from Poundland. I use it as honing oil.
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Old 17th Jun 2017, 11:26 pm   #32
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Default Re: Grease

You can actually put it in oil lamps if you want to - as you say it's just medical grade mineral oil. You can drink small amounts of refined mineral oil if there are no nasty additives in it, and it will just pass out at the other end, lubricating things as it goes. Used oil is nasty stuff because it acts as a carrier for all the evil chemicals which petrol and diesel engines produce in operation.
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Old 18th Jun 2017, 1:00 am   #33
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Default Re: Grease

New engine oil also carries warnings about skin contact. There are numerous chemical additives, detergents etc that aren't good for you.

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Old 18th Jun 2017, 3:20 am   #34
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Default Re: Grease

If turntable centre bearings are phosphor bronze type I assume they'd be designed for oil not grease. Even though the slow rotational speed might suggest grease, the pressures are light so probably grease not needed anyway. I normally use a light to medium oil.

The other thing is the state of the rubber tyre on the idler wheel. If the tyre has become harder it wont grip as well and any increased drag on the turntable wont be welcome.
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Old 18th Jun 2017, 10:43 am   #35
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Default Re: Grease

A superb light, non creep or fling, fluid grease is made by Oregon for nose wheel sprockets & gear slides etc. It is a mineral grease which does not harden (even after 10 years use) and is perfect for turntable bearings and similar parts in electronic equipment & jukeboxes. The grease is called Red Fluid Grease, pt no 90795, not too expensive but worth consideration.
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Old 19th Jun 2017, 1:10 am   #36
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Default Re: Grease

Thank you to all who have contributed to this thread so far. It's quite true that you can learn something new everyday from other peoples knowledge and experience.
I've learned a great deal about lubricants from you all and will take a look at all the previous suggestions and try some out.
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Old 19th Jun 2017, 3:27 am   #37
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Default Re: Grease

Instead of lithium based grease, molybdenium sulfide based grease is often used. Both in automotive and electronics/mechanics applications.
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Old 19th Jun 2017, 10:30 am   #38
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Default Re: Grease

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinker11 View Post
A very interesting thread as a couple of old garrards and bsr's that I've had for over 20 years and fully serviced them all that time ago are now getting a little sticky in operation.

So it's time to service them again and make the right choice of lubrication.

I also need to service the mech on my rockola 478 juke and have put it off for years as it always works faultlessly.

So it sounds like a general purpose grease with ptfe (not silicone) for sliding and meshing parts, clock or sewing machine oil for motor shafts and idlers and trip pawls completely dry....is this right?

Also, has anyone tried good old petroleum jelly or is this a problem in the making?

You might have to import this stuff, but many USA based jukebox experts recommend this as perfect for Rockola Mechs (not to be confused with the standard 3 in 1):

https://www.3inone.com/products/motor-oil/

Apparently it recombines well with existing dried out graphite grease, which is what the mechs used originally. I've used it myself and found it very good.

Though, another SAE 20 oil may do just as well.
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Old 19th Jun 2017, 10:33 am   #39
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Default Re: Grease

I tend to use Molybdenium grease for lots of things. I also use graphited light oil (I have a can of 3 in 1) as well.

Silicone grease for some things (I presume, maybe wrongly, that it is less of an issue with skin contact etc).

Special plastics grease (RS Components sells it).

Damping grease (Rocol - supplied by RS) - invaluable for thread damping / lubrication.

I have others as well such as vaseline so generally have something for most purposes.
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Old 19th Jun 2017, 12:59 pm   #40
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Default Re: Grease

Rocol grease is used in the plunger that lifts the tone arm on turntables. This is often overlooked by many restorers of record players.
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