UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Computers

Notices

Vintage Computers Any vintage computer systems, calculators, video games etc., but with an emphasis on 1980s and earlier equipment.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 9th Mar 2017, 8:14 pm   #1
Zelandeth
Heptode
 
Zelandeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire, UK.
Posts: 931
Default Best Browser for an ancient PC (Windows 3.11)

First is a disclaimer: this machine isn't being used for real web browsing, or even likely to be making contact with the outside world. It's purely for my own entertainment, and looking at stuff on my local network. Main reason I'd like to get something capable of reading webpages is that quite a few bits of documentation I have are are stored in HTML format.

The machine: circa 1992 Toshiba T5200 portable. 15MHz 386 CPU, 8Mb of memory, running Windows for Workgroups 3.11. Networking is handled by an equally ancient 3Com Etherlink III card, and that side of things is all up and running perfectly. As is the TCP/IP stack, and file sharing - which has made software installation far less of a chore as I don't need to rely on the time consuming faff of writing a thousand floppy discs!

Two things I could do with are a web browser and PDF viewer...

So what would people suggest I give a try?

Again - I'm not planning to surf the actual web on this thing - beyond possibly to take a few screenshots to show why it's really not a good idea!
Zelandeth is offline  
Old 9th Mar 2017, 9:19 pm   #2
paulsherwin
Moderator
 
paulsherwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 27,740
Default Re: Best Browser for an ancient PC (Windows 3.11)

The early versions of Internet Explorer are probably your best bet - I think IE5 was the last one to support WFW, though I understand it's pretty grim. You could also try Arachne.

Windows 3 predated the WWW so you shouldn't expect anything to work especially well.
paulsherwin is offline  
Old 9th Mar 2017, 9:38 pm   #3
Guest
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Best Browser for an ancient PC (Windows 3.11)

If it were mine a baby Linux would be my choice, best of luck!
 
Old 9th Mar 2017, 10:10 pm   #4
Zelandeth
Heptode
 
Zelandeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire, UK.
Posts: 931
Default Re: Best Browser for an ancient PC (Windows 3.11)

I've had a play around with Linux, but so far I've not had any luck getting an X Server running. Biggest issue seems to be memory limitations. So far I've not managed to find anything which will give me anything beyond a command line with only 8 meg of memory to work with.

I *think* I can upgrade it to 16mb - if I can remember where on earth the box with my 32 pin memory was last seen...

Plus half the reason I've got this machine set up is as essentially a replica of my first computer, which means Windows 3.1/3.11 and a lot of software from that era. Despite its flaws and limitations, I have a soft spot for Windows 3.*.
Zelandeth is offline  
Old 9th Mar 2017, 10:22 pm   #5
paulsherwin
Moderator
 
paulsherwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 27,740
Default Re: Best Browser for an ancient PC (Windows 3.11)

I don't think you will get Linux with a GUI running acceptably on that hardware. WfW is probably your best bet - at least it was designed to run with those constraints.
paulsherwin is offline  
Old 9th Mar 2017, 10:37 pm   #6
Zelandeth
Heptode
 
Zelandeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire, UK.
Posts: 931
Default Re: Best Browser for an ancient PC (Windows 3.11)

Pretty much sums up my findings so far then. Thanks for the pointer for Arachne, that certainly sounds both promising - and genuinely interesting in its own right.

It's astonishing how complete a networking solution is possible on such ancient hardware really...The fact I can browse the shared folders on my network, even print to one of the shared printers and can actually access the internet on a PC from 1992 is quite surprising I think.

Toshiba would be pretty proud to see their machines still able to do this much after 25 years with naught but a dead BIOS battery needing sorted and the floppy drive heads having needed a clean.
Zelandeth is offline  
Old 9th Mar 2017, 11:46 pm   #7
Phil G4SPZ
Dekatron
 
Phil G4SPZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bewdley, Worcestershire, UK.
Posts: 4,730
Default Re: Best Browser for an ancient PC (Windows 3.11)

I used to browse the internet and retrieve e-mails quite successfully using a Compaq Aero 33MHz colour sub-notebook running Windows 3.11. I was an AOL subscriber and so I used AOL's own browser, but I vaguely recall also trying a version of Opera. The modem was a 56k PCMCIA device. It worked but it was pretty slow, even then. I can't imagine how it would cope with typical web pages today!

Incidentally, for some time I used a brilliant program called Calmira II which made the classic Windows 3.1 GUI look just like Windows 95. No right-click facility though.
__________________
Phil

Optimist [n]: One who is not in possession of the full facts
Phil G4SPZ is offline  
Old 10th Mar 2017, 10:55 am   #8
Zelandeth
Heptode
 
Zelandeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire, UK.
Posts: 931
Default Re: Best Browser for an ancient PC (Windows 3.11)

Think I remember that, similar to Newlook for RiscOS 3.

No interest in changing the UI though, I like the look of Windows 3.1. In fact, have a half constructed GTK theme for my Linux machines based on that appearance I've been trying to find time to finish for years...
Zelandeth is offline  
Old 10th Mar 2017, 12:00 pm   #9
dominicbeesley
Octode
 
dominicbeesley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 1,885
Default Re: Best Browser for an ancient PC (Windows 3.11)

If you can live without pictures there's lynx I used to use it via serial to a linux box on my BBC Master 128 to browse the web
dominicbeesley is offline  
Old 10th Mar 2017, 2:20 pm   #10
Paul Stenning
Administrator
 
Paul Stenning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 9,057
Default Re: Best Browser for an ancient PC (Windows 3.11)

Perhaps look for an early version of Netscape Navigator. That's what many people used (rather than IE) back when this was current spec. It will still be fairly grim though, and a lot of websites probably won't work properly.

For PDF viewing then an older version of Adobe Acrobat Reader should work if you can find one. Version 5 is a good bet, though I can't remember if that works on Windows 3.1 or is for Windows 95 onwards.
__________________

Paul Stenning
Forum Admin/Owner and BVWS Webmaster
Paul Stenning is offline  
Old 10th Mar 2017, 3:38 pm   #11
Guest
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Best Browser for an ancient PC (Windows 3.11)

Cor, I remember getting Netscape on a floppy when I started using the internet in the 90's. £15 a month (plus call charges) for dial up, how things have changed.
 
Old 10th Mar 2017, 8:37 pm   #12
AC/HL
Dekatron
 
AC/HL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 9,636
Default Re: Best Browser for an ancient PC (Windows 3.11)

Old magazine discs often had browsers on them if anyone kept any.
AC/HL is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2017, 9:15 am   #13
JohnBHanson
Heptode
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Worthing, Sussex, UK.
Posts: 659
Default Re: Best Browser for an ancient PC (Windows 3.11)

Consider an old version of Opera - it is very light weight. I run it on a Compaq 386 PC with 8MByte of memory, slow but usable!
JohnBHanson is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2017, 11:34 pm   #14
arjoll
Dekatron
 
arjoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Invercargill, New Zealand
Posts: 3,435
Default Re: Best Browser for an ancient PC (Windows 3.11)

I'd go for an old Internet Explorer - probably 3 or 4, although 5 is supported. Netscape was pretty average on those old machines - I tried it for a bit and went back to IE2, even without frames it seemed faster and more reliable (frames were only supported from IE3).

It's a long time ago though, and I can't really remember what I used with Windows for Workgroups machines at work (I had Windows 95 from the preview/beta stage at home, worked better with the BBS) - I know we used Trumpet Winsock for Southnet's SLIP connection, and Marc Cohen, owner of Southnet, liked Netscape.
arjoll is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2017, 12:22 am   #15
Clydeuk
Hexode
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Liverpool, Merseyside, UK.
Posts: 453
Default Re: Best Browser for an ancient PC (Windows 3.11)

I used Arachne about 17 years ago to see if I could get an Amstrad 286 to work on the internet. It did work, but wasn't something I would want to use regularly. The issue with regard to this thread is that as far as I am aware it is a complete suite including browser and TCP/IP stack and is designed to run in DOS. I didn't think it would work in Windows 3.1, but it was a long time ago, and in any case my 286 would only run Windows 3.1 in real mode and it wasn't possible to get Trumpet Winsock running on it.
Clydeuk is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2017, 12:49 am   #16
Nicklyons2
Octode
 
Nicklyons2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Barnsley, South Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 1,517
Default Re: Best Browser for an ancient PC (Windows 3.11)

Computers aren't my line of expertise but, as someone mentioned AOL earlier, I have some early versions on disc if you wish to give that a try. Certainly worked on Win 95 but can't swear to 3.1.
Nicklyons2 is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2017, 1:37 am   #17
paulsherwin
Moderator
 
paulsherwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 27,740
Default Re: Best Browser for an ancient PC (Windows 3.11)

Windows 3.1 is little more than a DOS task switcher with a GUI grafted on, so I would expect any DOS software to work, though there may be issues with conflicting TCP/IP stacks and I've never used Arachne in that environment (or any other, apart from as a quick experiment).
paulsherwin is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2017, 8:26 am   #18
Phil G4SPZ
Dekatron
 
Phil G4SPZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bewdley, Worcestershire, UK.
Posts: 4,730
Default Re: Best Browser for an ancient PC (Windows 3.11)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicklyons2 View Post
...AOL worked on Win 95 but can't swear to 3.1.
From memory, AOL versions 8, 9, 10 and probably later certainly ran well on my Windows 3.11 486. I used AOL for several years from 1995 onwards.
__________________
Phil

Optimist [n]: One who is not in possession of the full facts
Phil G4SPZ is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2017, 7:51 pm   #19
Nuvistor
Dekatron
 
Nuvistor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Wigan, Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 9,424
Default Re: Best Browser for an ancient PC (Windows 3.11)

Found this web site, no knowledge whether it is safe. Treat with caution.

http://www.oldapps.com/internet_expl...em=Windows_3.1
Nuvistor is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2017, 9:26 pm   #20
Zelandeth
Heptode
 
Zelandeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire, UK.
Posts: 931
Default Re: Best Browser for an ancient PC (Windows 3.11)

It's one I've used before and generally been fine.

The main source I tend to use for legacy software is over here at Winworld which has proved invaluable for me when I discovered that the mould at our old house had eaten several of my sets of discs, not limited to but including Word 2.0c and Excel 4.0. Rediscovered quite a few old applications over there as well that I've got buried in the loft somewhere that I had previously completely forgotten about.
Zelandeth is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 7:25 am.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.