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Old 8th Aug 2012, 10:15 pm   #21
Oskar.B
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Default Re: Dux/Philips Swedish TV-Radiogram!

A little more general info regarding early TV in Sweden. It was indeed not until the end of the 1950s that TV took off here. Many had their first TV experience during the 1958 football world championship. My father remebered watching the games on the only TV set there was in our small village at that time (everyone gathered at home of that one TV owner). I don't know how far away the transmitter was located, but from his discription of the image quality, it was much too far away for a watchable picture It was in fact impossible to determine where the ball was, or identify which team a player belonged to!

Early 1960s the transmitter network was finally dense enough to give watchable pictures for the majority of the population.

Sensitive sets were important and probably a good selling argument. The "klar" button seen on the TV in this thread is some sort of image claifier. I don't remember how it worked, I think it reduces gain when a strong signal i available, maybe noise is reduced in that way. It had something to do with gain.

The earliest TVs I have found here in the north are from beginning of 1960s. Test transmissions in Sweden did not start until September 1956, to begin with only in Gothenburg and Stockholm. In Aug 1960 a transmitter in Skellefteå was launched and this probably gave watchable pictures. Before that I think the closest TV tower was at least 400km away! This last snippet was a result of a 10min research, so there could be errors ..
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Old 9th Aug 2012, 9:50 pm   #22
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Default Re: Dux/Philips Swedish TV-Radiogram!

It took considerable time to finish all the planned transmitters. I have a Swedish book about tv and the introduction of it from the mid 50's. They planned for the transmitters to be finished in the 70's.
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Old 10th Aug 2012, 12:38 pm   #23
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Default Re: Dux/Philips Swedish TV-Radiogram!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colourstar View Post
'm sure no UK televison of this era used push-pull transformerless audio output. That really is quite something!
No they didn't, but it was quite common in Continental Philips models. My wife's mother has a 24" Philips set fitted with the F6 chassis quietly rotting away in her bedroom (in Zimbabwe unfortunately, so too far distant to retrieve) which uses much the same circuit, this is a late 60s / early 70s set which appears to be pretty conventional otherwise.

The arrangement makes a lot of sense, an extra valve must be cheaper than a transformer, the only drawback being the need for a special high impedence loudspeaker.
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Old 10th Aug 2012, 7:49 pm   #24
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Default Re: Dux/Philips Swedish TV-Radiogram!

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the only drawback being the need for a special high impedence loudspeaker.
Interesting indeed, Tim. I wondered about this as on this model the loudspeaker is shared with the radio chassis, which I though was just a typical radiogram type of receiver with a single output valve. On inspection it actually has 2 x ECL82s in push-pull.

Many thanks to Oskar and Hans for the fascinating background information on the early days of Swedish television. I wonder if most of the programmes in the 50s and 60s were entirely Swedish productions of whether US (and possibly British) imported series were shown, either with dubbed soundtracks or with subtitles.

Also thanks to tri-comp for the suggestions on the tv fault. I can't wait to get myself some spare time to explore this further, but there's a busy social weekend to deal with first, starting tonight with a couple of cold beers. Lucky me!

Steve
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Old 10th Aug 2012, 11:29 pm   #25
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Default Re: Dux/Philips Swedish TV-Radiogram!

When you get the set working, you can play this classic clip from Swedish TV history. A really funny April-fools joke from 1962 that convinced a lot of people that they could get color-TV by putting a nylon stocking over the TV set. In the clip the TV engineer explaining this "interference phenomenon" is dead serious, and us Swedes tend to be a bit naive and really trust the authorities, so a lot of people had socks over their sets for years!

Enjoy

http://www.svtplay.se/klipp/153497/nylonstrumpan

Why not try it??
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Old 13th Aug 2012, 1:32 pm   #26
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Default Re: Dux/Philips Swedish TV-Radiogram!

Thanks Oskar, that's an interesting website. Reminds me of our own BBC Panorama 'spaghetti harvest' April fool spoof from around the same time.

Time to dive in! Out came the chassis to see what's what. The impression of quality is even more evident when looking at the general construction here. Very nice indeed. A dust-off with a paintbrush was all that was needed to remove the accumulation of fluff.

Looking at the service info, I didn't realise that the television actually has its own bass and treble controls. The audio side should be really good. I was pleased to find that what I assume is the vertical hold translates rather interestingly as 'picture entertainment'!

I think the best plan is to go for a complete replacement of all electrolytic, coupling and decoupling capacitors as the wax ones in particular are all looking a bit suspect. I'm hopeful that will clear the main faults. The close-up shows the mains filter cap about to give way. Interesting to see the occasional Plessey component, made in the UK.

The first photo shows the display 'as found'. I think the white 'foldover' at the bottom is actually the tuning bar as the screen only lights when the 'LOTS' button is pressed. As previously noted, there's hardly any width, but we'll see how things improve after the re-capping as I imagine they are causing havoc at the moment.

In fact, it occurs to me that the apparent narrow image is actually just the width of the tuning bar and not necessarily the width of the raster. Hmm.

Steve
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Last edited by Colourstar; 13th Aug 2012 at 1:41 pm. Reason: Added an extra bit of pondering
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Old 13th Aug 2012, 1:54 pm   #27
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Default Re: Dux/Philips Swedish TV-Radiogram!

It looks like it is in very good condition apart from that capacitor that has been gnawed by a mouse.
It looks like it is going to come up with a full width raster with a little bit of frame fold-over.
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Old 3rd Oct 2012, 9:08 pm   #28
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Default Re: Dux/Philips Swedish TV-Radiogram!

It's been a while, but finally I've got the re-capped chassis back in what has now been christened the 'Tellygram'. In fact there are still a couple of caps to replace, but it's 99% done so I thought I should pop it back together just to make sure I hadn't introduced any new faults.

After switch on the EHT eventually rustled up... and kept rustling. I could smell ozone and with the room light off could see a tiny blue spark where the EHT is leaking from the lead to chassis. Sleeving this cured the problem.

Great excitement ensued as a full width and height raster filled the 21" crt- which seems massive! The tube looks like new with tons of emission and an ability to reach truly dazzling levels with the brightness up. Sunglasses required!

My good friend Brian Renforth (aka Focus Diode of this parish) very kindly sent me his old UHF to VHF downconverter unit, which he made by modifying an old BRC 1500 mechanical tuner to give VHF Band II output.
There's no sound using this converter, but I could always feed audio to the gram input of the VHF radio, which can be used at the same time as the TV. Incidentally, the TV has it's own bass and treble controls.

A dvd player feeding a modulator feeding the downconverter allowed a snowy Test Card F to appear and hold steady. This was just an initial lash-up to prove that things were basically working- and it seems they are. Things should improve from here and there is potential to see a really stunning image on the screen if all goes well.

This is almost certainly the first and only picture this set has displayed in the UK since it was imported.

What fun!

Steve J (with apologies for the murky photos)
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Old 3rd Oct 2012, 9:10 pm   #29
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Default Re: Dux/Philips Swedish TV-Radiogram!

Fantastic!!!

Robert
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Old 3rd Oct 2012, 10:26 pm   #30
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Default Re: Dux/Philips Swedish TV-Radiogram!

Superb Steve!! I love the style of this set too!!!

All the best.
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Old 4th Oct 2012, 12:42 am   #31
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Default Re: Dux/Philips Swedish TV-Radiogram!

I'm sure you'll be able to set up a suitable VHF modulator, with the sound on the right frequency, and do this set proud. It looks as though it will be capable of an excellent picture.
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Old 4th Oct 2012, 9:51 pm   #32
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Default Re: Dux/Philips Swedish TV-Radiogram!

Thanks guys, I'm really pleased to see this monster up and running. I'll have more time at the weekend to tinker, so hope to see improved results then. I'll try and take some better pictures too.

The aerial connection on this is just two 'banana plug' sockets. Do I assume from that that they don't use screened coax aerial leads? Or do they...

Oh and a quick Google reveals that the world is apparently awash with modulators of every description, so if anyone can save time by pointing me at a suitable self-contained unit (preferably reasonably priced ) it would be much appreciated.

Steve
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Old 5th Oct 2012, 7:53 am   #33
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Default Re: Dux/Philips Swedish TV-Radiogram!

What an excellent set. Just the type of huge and ugly monster I like (even better if I lived in a mansion).

Well done Steve.

From Mike.
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Old 5th Oct 2012, 12:44 pm   #34
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Default Re: Dux/Philips Swedish TV-Radiogram!

That's fantastic Steve, well done! The signals should be strong from the converted tuner, you could try a different BI channel and the toggle switch setting which gives optimum results on BI or BII. If in the wrong posistion the signals will be weak.

Speaking of VHF modulators I remember encountering an export "TIMEX" branded version of the Sinclair ZX81 some 30 years ago. I'm sure this had a VHF modulator but would be no good of course as these PCs had no sound capability.

Well done again in getting the set working so well!
Cheers,
Brian
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Old 6th Oct 2012, 9:34 am   #35
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Default Re: Dux/Philips Swedish TV-Radiogram!

Just a quick comment regarding the antenna input. 300 ohm ribbon cable (balanced signal) was used here in Sweden in the early TV years, hence the banana socket inputs at the back of the set. I have two TV sets of similar vintage and I have never bothered to use a balun, just connect the output from a VHF modulator via a normal 75 ohm coax. It works great! Maybe you should be prepared to have some attenuation between the modulator and the TV set, or get a modulator with adjustable output level. I think it has been discussed earlier in this thread, that the TV sets used here had to be really sensitive ones.

Great to see some life in this old TV, good job!
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Old 6th Oct 2012, 7:25 pm   #36
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Default Re: Dux/Philips Swedish TV-Radiogram!

Thanks guys! Here's a little update to show the improved picture. I'm now using the output of a vcr with the dvd through that and there's a lot less noise and mush.

Still some interference to overcome although the EHT is still keen to track little. The height needs looking at as it's still a bit low on maximum- probably a feed resistor to the height control. The picture itself is (nearly) lovely and the sound is very impressive, rivalling my modern-ish Philips 29" Matchline.

I have no Swedish archive tv- not surprisingly- but videotaped 1960s editions of Germany's 'Beat Club' look and sound fab!

Steve
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Old 7th Oct 2012, 3:20 pm   #37
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Default Re: Dux/Philips Swedish TV-Radiogram!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colourstar View Post
Oh and a quick Google reveals that the world is apparently awash with modulators of every description, so if anyone can save time by pointing me at a suitable self-contained unit (preferably reasonably priced ) it would be much appreciated.
Is this of any help: http://www.pollin.de/shop/dt/OTE5NDk...5_8_K3_K4.html

Datasheet: http://console5.com/techwiki/images/..._UM-1285-8.pdf
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