GEC Rescued - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

TNC · 29th Jul 2010, 02:25 PM

Grateful for any assistance to id this set which I have just liberated from the municipal tip for the cost of a pint.
It's a 20" b&w, the back has 405/625 aerial apertures but the 405 has not been opened and there is no 405 tuner or system switching so it looks to have been a late d/s model sold as only UHF.
As far as I can see it has 7 valves : PCL86, PFL200, PCL85, PCF802, PY88, PL504, DY87 and a selection of strange three-legged devices!
The crt is Mullard A50-120W/R.
There is a chassis no: G 1048517 and the single pcb carries the initials R.A.I.L. and the no PC 392A4.

Not sure if it's that interesting but it looked sad and unwanted so couldn't resist!
Trevor.

neil29 · 29th Jul 2010, 02:36 PM

Probably a good save Trevor. as ive not seen any GEC dual standard or similar black & white sets from the late 60s early 70s ever

. cheers neil..

Alistair D · 29th Jul 2010, 02:48 PM

As far as I can remember the chassis is the GEC series 1.

The most common problem I used to have with them was lack of height at the bottom of the picture. This usually responded to replacing the resistor and cap on the cathode of the PCL85 pentode.

Al

BassoonBloke · 29th Jul 2010, 03:32 PM

Hello Trevor,

The other problem with this set is the double sided printed circuit board that tends to lift and cause a bit of a mess if you use too much heat soldering in one place

(i think it was called the 'Fineline Series' but might well be wrong !).
Should work pretty well when working, i don't remember any really bad problems with these.

Cheers,
Alan.

murphyv310 · 29th Jul 2010, 04:52 PM

H Trevor.
I am sure that is a UHF 625 line single standard only set, It was a good chassis and much more reliable than the earlier versions.
A good find and quite rare now, probably more TV22's around than these.

pentode12 · 29th Jul 2010, 05:02 PM

As Trevor said,
these were single standard UHF / 625 line sets that superceded the dual standard sets. The outward appearence and cabinets were practically identical on later production dual standard sets.
Andy.

TNC · 29th Jul 2010, 05:59 PM

Thanks guys for your comments - it's v. encouraging to save something!

Does anyone have a model number? I have been trawing through Paul's TV circuits cd but can't seem to find it.

Thanks
Trevor.

Tazman1966 · 29th Jul 2010, 06:07 PM

Hi Trevor.

Here's another http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/s...ead.php?t=9448

Hybrid tellies · 30th Jul 2010, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alistair D

As far as I can remember the chassis is the GEC series 1.

Al

It is indeed the Series 1 625 line single standard mono set dating from the early 1970's. It was a very reliable chassis and gave a good account of itself. It is reasonably easy to work on but you need to treat that double sided print with care. This set is most certainly worth saving.

The teleman · 30th Jul 2010, 08:56 AM

Hi Trevor , These are great little sets , I remember working on these when new, & i belive the model no to be 2048 series one chassis trader service sheet no 1957/t371 . good luck with the restoration , Chris..

Welsh Anorak · 30th Jul 2010, 12:04 PM

Hi
There was also a Series Two which was almost the same - some had the controls and the speaker on the top of the cabinet - they used to fall inside with the heat.
A nice find - the very last GEC S/S hybrids were excellent sets as were the MS Deccas. Glad the controls are in one piece!
Glyn

dazzlevision · 31st Jul 2010, 02:27 PM

Hello Trevor,

According to my GEC brochures of that era, the model number is 2047 (the single standard version of the equivalently styled 2043 dual standard set).

The green plastic label stamped “G1048517” is the serial number of the set (G = GEC - green label; S = Sobell – red label).

The initials “R.A.I.L.” stand for Radio & Allied Industries Ltd, the name of the "Sobell" firm before R&AIL amalgamated with GEC, circa 1961 (I think it would be called a “reverse takeover” nowadays). Michael Sobell started Sobell Industries in the 1940s, I believe and was soon joined by his son-in-law, Arnold (later Lord) Weinstock, who was closely involved with the merger of R&AIL with GEC.

These sets were available in a very similar looking dual standard version (model 2043) and their electrical design retained a lot of the circuitry used in their dual standard predecessors, such as the UHF tuner, line oscillator and frame oscillator/output stages. They did drop the PCL84 used in the dual standard sets as the audio output valve, opting for the more suitable PCL86.

I agree that the chassis is the Series 1 single standard mono chassis. It evolved into Series 2 (simpler mechanical construction) and then Series 3 (varicap tuning).

One stock fault that I remember is an open circuit 10MOhm 0.5W carbon composition resistor in the width stabilization stage, giving low width and boost HT.

Regards,

Dazzlevision

TNC · 31st Jul 2010, 10:17 PM

Thanks vm for model no. details and further fascinating info. - particularly wrt Lord Weinstock. I remember he was later famous (when Chairman of GEC) for refusing to spend a "in those days" massive company cash mountain of over £2.5bln despite the encouragement of politicians of all hues!
We could perhaps have done with a bit more of that in the last 10 years!

Trevor.

gec2110 · 3rd Aug 2010, 10:48 AM

These were nice sets and i think almost as good as the thorn 1500
and many of their rivals better than the philips 300 and bush A774
they do a model which is simlar but has all the controls on the top
looks in good nic hope the crt is ok as well

murphyv310 · 3rd Aug 2010, 12:07 PM

I would put them another way round, The Gec & Philips 230 series about equal and the A774 & 1500 not fairing quite as good

Vectamart · 7th Aug 2010, 01:14 PM

Lack of height was often caused by the 1.5megohm resistor in series with the height control increasing in value.

Alistair D · 7th Aug 2010, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vectamart

Lack of height was often caused by the 1.5megohm resistor in series with the height control increasing in value.

Forgot about that one.

Al

Hybrid tellies · 7th Aug 2010, 06:51 PM

I have had the height vdr go causing lack of height, the width resister and HT rectifier go but never had to replace the Loptx and never heard of one going either. All in all a great little set and probably the best after the ITT VC200 chassis.

Tim · 7th Aug 2010, 07:32 PM

Quote:

The most common problem I used to have with them was lack of height at the bottom of the picture. This usually responded to replacing the resistor and cap on the cathode of the PCL85 pentode.

And check anode and screen resistors too.

Quote:

The other problem with this set is the double sided printed circuit board that tends to lift and cause a bit of a mess if you use too much heat soldering in one place (i think it was called the 'Fineline Series' but might well be wrong !).

Yes and no(You're not wrong, I think it was called the fineline.)
Height problems are common on these caused by high value resistors. Best to clip out and solder new ones to the stumps, to avoid tracks lifting on that AWFUL board.

kipperdog · 13th Aug 2010, 02:16 PM

If I remember correctly, GEC used double-sided printed circuit boards on quite a few models (and some other manufacturers as well) against advice of the day. The heat from the valves weakening the adhesive holding the track to the board. (Remember the CDA panel in the PYE colour TV?)

29th Jul 2010, 02:36 PM	#2
neil29 Heptode Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Newport, Gwent. Posts: 570	Re: GEC Rescued Probably a good save Trevor. as ive not seen any GEC dual standard or similar black & white sets from the late 60s early 70s ever . cheers neil.. Last edited by neil29; 29th Jul 2010 at 02:41 PM.

29th Jul 2010, 02:48 PM	#3
Alistair D Triode Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 34	Re: GEC Rescued As far as I can remember the chassis is the GEC series 1. The most common problem I used to have with them was lack of height at the bottom of the picture. This usually responded to replacing the resistor and cap on the cathode of the PCL85 pentode. Al __________________ I won't tell you how I discovered that.

29th Jul 2010, 03:32 PM	#4
BassoonBloke Pentode Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: East London. Posts: 216	Re: GEC Rescued Hello Trevor, The other problem with this set is the double sided printed circuit board that tends to lift and cause a bit of a mess if you use too much heat soldering in one place (i think it was called the 'Fineline Series' but might well be wrong !). Should work pretty well when working, i don't remember any really bad problems with these. Cheers, Alan.

29th Jul 2010, 04:52 PM	#5
murphyv310 Nonode Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kilmarnock Posts: 2,260	Re: GEC Rescued H Trevor. I am sure that is a UHF 625 line single standard only set, It was a good chassis and much more reliable than the earlier versions. A good find and quite rare now, probably more TV22's around than these. __________________ Cheers, Trevor

29th Jul 2010, 05:02 PM	#6
pentode12 Triode Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Truro Cornwall Posts: 46	Re: GEC Rescued As Trevor said, these were single standard UHF / 625 line sets that superceded the dual standard sets. The outward appearence and cabinets were practically identical on later production dual standard sets. Andy.

29th Jul 2010, 05:59 PM	#7
TNC Hexode Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Westcliff-on-Sea, Essex. Posts: 439	Re: GEC Rescued Thanks guys for your comments - it's v. encouraging to save something! Does anyone have a model number? I have been trawing through Paul's TV circuits cd but can't seem to find it. Thanks Trevor.

29th Jul 2010, 06:07 PM	#8
Tazman1966 Octode Join Date: May 2006 Location: St Albans, Herts (AL1) Posts: 1,442	Re: GEC Rescued Hi Trevor. Here's another http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/s...ead.php?t=9448 __________________ All the very best, Tas

30th Jul 2010, 08:56 AM	#10
The teleman Pentode Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Co, Durham Posts: 143	Re: GEC Rescued Hi Trevor , These are great little sets , I remember working on these when new, & i belive the model no to be 2048 series one chassis trader service sheet no 1957/t371 . good luck with the restoration , Chris..

30th Jul 2010, 12:04 PM	#11
Welsh Anorak Octode Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: North Wales Posts: 1,410	Re: GEC Rescued Hi There was also a Series Two which was almost the same - some had the controls and the speaker on the top of the cabinet - they used to fall inside with the heat. A nice find - the very last GEC S/S hybrids were excellent sets as were the MS Deccas. Glad the controls are in one piece! Glyn

31st Jul 2010, 02:27 PM	#12
dazzlevision Heptode Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Swindon Posts: 744	Re: GEC Rescued Hello Trevor, According to my GEC brochures of that era, the model number is 2047 (the single standard version of the equivalently styled 2043 dual standard set). The green plastic label stamped “G1048517” is the serial number of the set (G = GEC - green label; S = Sobell – red label). The initials “R.A.I.L.” stand for Radio & Allied Industries Ltd, the name of the "Sobell" firm before R&AIL amalgamated with GEC, circa 1961 (I think it would be called a “reverse takeover” nowadays). Michael Sobell started Sobell Industries in the 1940s, I believe and was soon joined by his son-in-law, Arnold (later Lord) Weinstock, who was closely involved with the merger of R&AIL with GEC. These sets were available in a very similar looking dual standard version (model 2043) and their electrical design retained a lot of the circuitry used in their dual standard predecessors, such as the UHF tuner, line oscillator and frame oscillator/output stages. They did drop the PCL84 used in the dual standard sets as the audio output valve, opting for the more suitable PCL86. I agree that the chassis is the Series 1 single standard mono chassis. It evolved into Series 2 (simpler mechanical construction) and then Series 3 (varicap tuning). One stock fault that I remember is an open circuit 10MOhm 0.5W carbon composition resistor in the width stabilization stage, giving low width and boost HT. Regards, Dazzlevision

31st Jul 2010, 10:17 PM	#13
TNC Hexode Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Westcliff-on-Sea, Essex. Posts: 439	Re: GEC Rescued Thanks vm for model no. details and further fascinating info. - particularly wrt Lord Weinstock. I remember he was later famous (when Chairman of GEC) for refusing to spend a "in those days" massive company cash mountain of over £2.5bln despite the encouragement of politicians of all hues! We could perhaps have done with a bit more of that in the last 10 years! Trevor.

3rd Aug 2010, 10:48 AM	#14
gec2110 Pentode Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: croydon Posts: 190	Re: GEC Rescued These were nice sets and i think almost as good as the thorn 1500 and many of their rivals better than the philips 300 and bush A774 they do a model which is simlar but has all the controls on the top looks in good nic hope the crt is ok as well Last edited by gec2110; 3rd Aug 2010 at 10:56 AM. Reason: more details

3rd Aug 2010, 12:07 PM	#15
murphyv310 Nonode Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kilmarnock Posts: 2,260	Re: GEC Rescued I would put them another way round, The Gec & Philips 230 series about equal and the A774 & 1500 not fairing quite as good __________________ Cheers, Trevor

7th Aug 2010, 01:14 PM	#16
Vectamart Triode Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Ventnor Posts: 45	Re: GEC Rescued Lack of height was often caused by the 1.5megohm resistor in series with the height control increasing in value.

7th Aug 2010, 06:51 PM	#18
Hybrid tellies Octode Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Bristol UK Posts: 1,120	Re: GEC Rescued I have had the height vdr go causing lack of height, the width resister and HT rectifier go but never had to replace the Loptx and never heard of one going either. All in all a great little set and probably the best after the ITT VC200 chassis. __________________ Simon BVWS member

13th Aug 2010, 02:16 PM	#20
kipperdog Triode Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Coventry Posts: 26	Re: GEC Rescued If I remember correctly, GEC used double-sided printed circuit boards on quite a few models (and some other manufacturers as well) against advice of the day. The heat from the valves weakening the adhesive holding the track to the board. (Remember the CDA panel in the PYE colour TV?)