Sord M23 returns 'home' - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

arjoll · 5th Aug 2008, 10:35 am

A slightly premature post, but I just had to share because I'm quite chuffed

Today I picked up a Sord M23 mk III computer. Not any old Sord M23 (not that they're that common!) but the very same one that was the first computer we had at home - not really a 'home computer' but one that dad developed his survey calculation software. The very same one - he sold it to a surveyor 23 years ago after upgrading to an M68. It even includes some floppies with my writing on the sleeves!

Its still out in the Outlander - it was late when I got home from Gore and quite a bit of rain this evening - but hopefully I'll have a chance to set it up and take some photos in the weekend.

Nickthedentist · 5th Aug 2008, 12:44 pm

That's a nice story!

Presumably, you're buying it back off the chap your dad sold it to? Or has it been elsewhre in between?

Is your dad still around to see his "old friend"?

Nick.

arjoll · 5th Aug 2008, 9:56 pm

It's come back from the business partner of the guy he sold it to - its been with the one firm all this time, but unused for 23 years. I'll probably take a couple of bottles of wine up next time I'm passing through Gore.

Dad's still around. He's quite amused by my interest in obtaining the 'old junk' he sold so long ago!

Baggrus · 6th Aug 2008, 1:11 am

What a lovely thing to happen. I have a computer running here which I built from new for somebody 4 years ago that has come from a whole pallet of "scrap"

It's nice when old friends turn up all unexpected, especially the longer they have been away. A part of my main stereo stack belonged to my sound business that was liquidated 15 years ago.. I bought it on a boot sale for £1.50 in Staffs.. Sometimes it's a small world

arjoll · 20th Aug 2008, 11:58 am

A quick update - the day after posting I powered the computer up, and after a bit of fiddling got the machine running. It booted up into the "Survey Package" land survey calculation program that dad wrote in the early 80's.

After looking through some of the disks that came with it I fired up PIPS-II, a kind-of hybrid spreadsheet/database/language - and found a small part of my 1985 cassette database in a scratch area ("sub page" in PIPS terminology)!

I've struck one minor problem - the belts on the Teac FD-50C-11-U floppy drives need replaced (SSDD, 320k). One was replaced 20 years ago - by dad after he sold it - with a rubber band! Needless to say this one failed again while I was testing the computer. The other one is intact but I suspect it would be a good idea to replace it.

Does anyone have experience with the kind of belt that Teac would have used? It appears to have a circumfrence of 350mm, 5mm wide but doesn't appear to be rubber - its more a plastic film, although there is a lot of black muck on the motor pully and where the belt passes so I wonder if maybe it was a rubber-coated belt (is there such a thing?) and the rubber has disintegrated. Any hints would be appreciated!

Obviously a rubber belt will work (the rubber band did!) but it would be nice to know what the 'real' belt was. I've emailed Teac, but I doubt they'll be able to offer much support for a drive that was probably discontinued 25 years ago.

Nickthedentist · 20th Aug 2008, 6:12 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by arjoll

its more a plastic film...

Maybe polyuerathane (feels rubbery but translucent, usually yellowey).

"Professional" pinch rollers were often made of something similar.

Nick.

arjoll · 21st Aug 2008, 12:03 pm

The belt isn't stretchy at all, but still first perfectly - so it hasn't just lost its streath, but may have never had any.

I spoke to an electronics tech today - he suspects the belt is a plastic film, similar to mylar, and that the coating was a carbon anti-static coating of some sort.

The fact that a rubber band did the job for close to 20 years in one drive means that a proper rubber drive belt won't be a problem, so I've ordered a couple of 105 x 5 x 0.6mm belts.

I also heard back from Teac - the drive was custom made for SORD so they have no information on it. Doing more research it seems that SORD was one of the few manufacturers using 100tpi disks - hence 320k formatted on a single sided 5.25" floppy - and this is borne out in the only other reference I can find online to a Teac FD50C drive being in relation to Vector Graphic systems, well known for their oddball 100tpi disks.

arjoll · 23rd Aug 2008, 9:24 am

Belts haven't arrived yet, but I was out in the workshop today doing some other work so took some shots of the SORD FD-20 drive unit.

You'll see the original belt in the second photo - I did rub what I thought was the gunge (but was probably the antistatic coating) off the belt, its a thin but strong plastic film that only just fits. Without any information forthcoming from Teac about the size/composition I'm going to have to make do with the standard rubber belt.

The other 'belt' is the rubber band installed 20-odd years ago!

I've also shown the 1981 date code and the Teac model number - if anyone is familiar with this drive I'd love to hear from you, but Teac have come back saying it was 'custom made' so unless you fixed SORD's you probably haven't seen one

Courtney Louise · 28th Aug 2008, 9:27 am

The drive itself may have been custom made but I am sure I have seen other 5.25" drives with that belt config over the years...

Andi

arjoll · 29th Aug 2008, 10:23 am

Well, I just couldn't help myself. I picked up another M23 today, this one with a colour monitor!

So that means we now have two M23's, an M23EX and two M68's. That probably accounts for almost all of the SORDs in the lower part of NZ that didn't end up in landfill in the late 80's/early 90's. I know of one other - and the owner isn't selling

arjoll · 8th Sep 2008, 10:32 am

Bad news tonight, after letting the second M23 acclimatise to the environment I powered it up.

Two issues - firstly it looks like it needs a new belt on the boot floppy drive - not a problem as I grabbed an extra one when I got the new belt for the other floppy.

Second one is more serious - the power supply blew after a few minutes on. The machine kept running for the few seconds it took me to hit the power, so I'm hoping there was no downstream damage. It looks like the X cap across the mains has blown - but I have no experience with switch mode supplies so will get it looked at professionally.

The good thing to come of it is that if there are any obvious reasons for the supply blowing I can use the info to get the same bits replaced in the other one before they cause problems.

CanonMan · 8th Sep 2008, 1:13 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by arjoll

Second one is more serious - the power supply blew after a few minutes on. The machine kept running for the few seconds it took me to hit the power, so I'm hoping there was no downstream damage. It looks like the X cap across the mains has blown - but I have no experience with switch mode supplies so will get it looked at professionally.

The same thing happens with BBC Micro power supplies.

Replace the capacitor with the same type and rating and all should be well. At a push, you could use it with the capacitor removed and it would be okay...

arjoll · 27th Sep 2008, 10:23 am

As predicted by CanonMan, only the suppressor cap had failed. I had an electronic tech friend check it over anyway, and everything else was fine. I'll replace the cap with an X2 in the other unit, and may even check the power supply in my M23EX (which I haven't powered up since buying 3 years ago).

I reinstalled the supply in the M23 this evening and everything is well. Now I just need to find some DD disks so I can make backup copies of everything!

5th Aug 2008, 10:35 am	#1
arjoll Dekatron Join Date: May 2006 Location: Invercargill, New Zealand Posts: 3,458	Sord M23 returns 'home' A slightly premature post, but I just had to share because I'm quite chuffed Today I picked up a Sord M23 mk III computer. Not any old Sord M23 (not that they're that common!) but the very same one that was the first computer we had at home - not really a 'home computer' but one that dad developed his survey calculation software. The very same one - he sold it to a surveyor 23 years ago after upgrading to an M68. It even includes some floppies with my writing on the sleeves! Its still out in the Outlander - it was late when I got home from Gore and quite a bit of rain this evening - but hopefully I'll have a chance to set it up and take some photos in the weekend.

5th Aug 2008, 12:44 pm	#2
Nickthedentist Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 17,861	Re: Sord M23 returns 'home' That's a nice story! Presumably, you're buying it back off the chap your dad sold it to? Or has it been elsewhre in between? Is your dad still around to see his "old friend"? Nick.

5th Aug 2008, 9:56 pm	#3
arjoll Dekatron Join Date: May 2006 Location: Invercargill, New Zealand Posts: 3,458	Re: Sord M23 returns 'home' It's come back from the business partner of the guy he sold it to - its been with the one firm all this time, but unused for 23 years. I'll probably take a couple of bottles of wine up next time I'm passing through Gore. Dad's still around. He's quite amused by my interest in obtaining the 'old junk' he sold so long ago!

6th Aug 2008, 1:11 am	#4
Baggrus Pentode Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Wigan, Greater Manchester, UK. Posts: 163	Re: Sord M23 returns 'home' What a lovely thing to happen. I have a computer running here which I built from new for somebody 4 years ago that has come from a whole pallet of "scrap" It's nice when old friends turn up all unexpected, especially the longer they have been away. A part of my main stereo stack belonged to my sound business that was liquidated 15 years ago.. I bought it on a boot sale for £1.50 in Staffs.. Sometimes it's a small world

20th Aug 2008, 11:58 am	#5
arjoll Dekatron Join Date: May 2006 Location: Invercargill, New Zealand Posts: 3,458	Re: Sord M23 returns 'home' A quick update - the day after posting I powered the computer up, and after a bit of fiddling got the machine running. It booted up into the "Survey Package" land survey calculation program that dad wrote in the early 80's. After looking through some of the disks that came with it I fired up PIPS-II, a kind-of hybrid spreadsheet/database/language - and found a small part of my 1985 cassette database in a scratch area ("sub page" in PIPS terminology)! I've struck one minor problem - the belts on the Teac FD-50C-11-U floppy drives need replaced (SSDD, 320k). One was replaced 20 years ago - by dad after he sold it - with a rubber band! Needless to say this one failed again while I was testing the computer. The other one is intact but I suspect it would be a good idea to replace it. Does anyone have experience with the kind of belt that Teac would have used? It appears to have a circumfrence of 350mm, 5mm wide but doesn't appear to be rubber - its more a plastic film, although there is a lot of black muck on the motor pully and where the belt passes so I wonder if maybe it was a rubber-coated belt (is there such a thing?) and the rubber has disintegrated. Any hints would be appreciated! Obviously a rubber belt will work (the rubber band did!) but it would be nice to know what the 'real' belt was. I've emailed Teac, but I doubt they'll be able to offer much support for a drive that was probably discontinued 25 years ago. Attached Thumbnails

21st Aug 2008, 12:03 pm	#7
arjoll Dekatron Join Date: May 2006 Location: Invercargill, New Zealand Posts: 3,458	Re: Sord M23 returns 'home' The belt isn't stretchy at all, but still first perfectly - so it hasn't just lost its streath, but may have never had any. I spoke to an electronics tech today - he suspects the belt is a plastic film, similar to mylar, and that the coating was a carbon anti-static coating of some sort. The fact that a rubber band did the job for close to 20 years in one drive means that a proper rubber drive belt won't be a problem, so I've ordered a couple of 105 x 5 x 0.6mm belts. I also heard back from Teac - the drive was custom made for SORD so they have no information on it. Doing more research it seems that SORD was one of the few manufacturers using 100tpi disks - hence 320k formatted on a single sided 5.25" floppy - and this is borne out in the only other reference I can find online to a Teac FD50C drive being in relation to Vector Graphic systems, well known for their oddball 100tpi disks.

23rd Aug 2008, 9:24 am	#8
arjoll Dekatron Join Date: May 2006 Location: Invercargill, New Zealand Posts: 3,458	Re: Sord M23 returns 'home' Belts haven't arrived yet, but I was out in the workshop today doing some other work so took some shots of the SORD FD-20 drive unit. You'll see the original belt in the second photo - I did rub what I thought was the gunge (but was probably the antistatic coating) off the belt, its a thin but strong plastic film that only just fits. Without any information forthcoming from Teac about the size/composition I'm going to have to make do with the standard rubber belt. The other 'belt' is the rubber band installed 20-odd years ago! I've also shown the 1981 date code and the Teac model number - if anyone is familiar with this drive I'd love to hear from you, but Teac have come back saying it was 'custom made' so unless you fixed SORD's you probably haven't seen one Attached Thumbnails

28th Aug 2008, 9:27 am	#9
Courtney Louise Octode Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Welshpool, Powys, Wales Posts: 1,327	Re: Sord M23 returns 'home' The drive itself may have been custom made but I am sure I have seen other 5.25" drives with that belt config over the years... Andi __________________ *33, 45, 78, around and around they go...*

29th Aug 2008, 10:23 am	#10
arjoll Dekatron Join Date: May 2006 Location: Invercargill, New Zealand Posts: 3,458	Re: Sord M23 returns 'home' Well, I just couldn't help myself. I picked up another M23 today, this one with a colour monitor! So that means we now have two M23's, an M23EX and two M68's. That probably accounts for almost all of the SORDs in the lower part of NZ that didn't end up in landfill in the late 80's/early 90's. I know of one other - and the owner isn't selling

8th Sep 2008, 10:32 am	#11
arjoll Dekatron Join Date: May 2006 Location: Invercargill, New Zealand Posts: 3,458	Re: Sord M23 returns 'home' Bad news tonight, after letting the second M23 acclimatise to the environment I powered it up. Two issues - firstly it looks like it needs a new belt on the boot floppy drive - not a problem as I grabbed an extra one when I got the new belt for the other floppy. Second one is more serious - the power supply blew after a few minutes on. The machine kept running for the few seconds it took me to hit the power, so I'm hoping there was no downstream damage. It looks like the X cap across the mains has blown - but I have no experience with switch mode supplies so will get it looked at professionally. The good thing to come of it is that if there are any obvious reasons for the supply blowing I can use the info to get the same bits replaced in the other one before they cause problems. Attached Thumbnails

27th Sep 2008, 10:23 am	#13
arjoll Dekatron Join Date: May 2006 Location: Invercargill, New Zealand Posts: 3,458	Re: Sord M23 returns 'home' As predicted by CanonMan, only the suppressor cap had failed. I had an electronic tech friend check it over anyway, and everything else was fine. I'll replace the cap with an X2 in the other unit, and may even check the power supply in my M23EX (which I haven't powered up since buying 3 years ago). I reinstalled the supply in the M23 this evening and everything is well. Now I just need to find some DD disks so I can make backup copies of everything!