Re: Old electrical fittings
 

This posting is of interest to me as I need information about when shutters on socket outlets were first used.

Unfortunately, the pictures are not close enough for me to see which sockets have shutters, if any.

Can anyone help me find out when shutters were first used please? I need verifiable information, so it would have to be backed by catalogues, standards or similar.

I know that shutters were considered essential by the Post War Buildings Studies Committee who published their report, No. 11 - Electrical Installations in 1944. This led to BS 1363 for 13A sockets which have thus always had shutters. However they were recommended in the 11th edition of the Wiring Regulations first published in 1938 and so it would seem that they were used before then.

(If this enquiry is not relevent to this thread, could it please be moved to a new one)?

PMM

Re: Old electrical fittings
 

Unfortunately plugs turn up more often than sockets these days, It may be of interest that Crabtree i think made plugs with slieved pins as is reglation today ,well before the war , and i think they also had a locking mechanism to the earth pin so that it could not be unplugged without switching off first . I have only seen the plugs though . The only shuttered round pin sockets i have seen yet have been post war .

Re: Old electrical fittings
 

An advert in my 1929 'Sunco' catalogue shows an 'MK' anti-flash socket (2-pin 5 and 15A versions) that has shutters covering the inserts as soon as the plug is withdrawn. This is marketed more as an arc-reduction device (it isn't switched) than a safety shutter however.

MEM 13A sockets advertised in May 1955 gave great prominence to shutters; not quite a 'unique selling point', but nearly!

Re: Old electrical fittings
 

Hi Peter, In my parents house, which was wired in the 30's, the only 3 pin 5 A socket outlet was of the interlocked type, with porcelain base and bakelite cover. The switch toggle could not be switched ON until the plug was inserted. The plug could not be withdrawn until the switch was OFF. This was typical of the sockets in the NE of England at that time. I'll see if I can find a sample in the spares box.


Ed

Re: Old electrical fittings
 

The council house I lived in in Norwich was built in about 1948. It had round pin shuttered type sockets fitted when it was built. The were designed for use with the Wylex?? type plugs where the live pin was a screw in fuse. The earth pin had a pointed end to activate the shutter mechanism.

The problem was that the fuses were apt to break in half leaving a live piece of fuse wire protruding from the socket.

Re: Old electrical fittings
 

Graham's council house was probably wired up to use Dorman Smith plugs. These were very common in council installations until the now common 13A BS1363 ring mains came into widespread use.

When I was a lad starting out in TV servicing we had a variety of standards in use in my local area.

To ensure that the soldering iron could be plugged in on service calls in was fitted with a 5A two pin plug which also worked in our bench sockets. We then had a set of adaptor leads with a corresponding socket. There was one with a 13A plug, a 5A 3 pin, a Dorman Smith, a 15A plug, a 2A plug, one with a Wylex plug and one with a Bayonet adaptor for plugging into the light socket.

That covered most eventualities relatively safely!

The workshop had a large board for each bench with more sockets than you could shake a stick at.

Regards,

Re: Old electrical fittings
 

You could have done with one of those "universal" plugs (I used to have 2 of them) - these had a variety of pins which could be engaged according to which socket you needed to connect it to. If I recall correctly they had pins for 2A, 5A, 15A and 13A.





BG

Re: Old electrical fittings
 

We did have those later - in the shop. We sold them but they were too expensive for use by our own engineers!

Also they didn't do the D&S, which were used on our largest council estate.

Regards,

Re: Old electrical fittings
 

Re taking a soldering iron to customer's houses, I came across this picture while in one of my homesick browsing modes.

I thought it looked familiar (changed now of course) but then it came to me. Brand new type transformer quick heat, supplied by PYE. Plugged it in and pulled the trigger. Large bang and pall of smoke. It was one of the few places left that was still on DC.

http://www.francisfrith.com/search/e...er_C136040.htm

My old house at Walton on Naze was wired for the first time in about 1948...not counting a couple of light sockets downstairs. We had a 15a Bakelite plug that was of course unshielded, but it had a curved protuberance with a square section block that was pushed up or down in that crescent bulge. They lasted until I was about 30, abused with all kinds of overloads, and never, ever protested with the slightest fizzing. I suppose it would cost too much to make things as well as that now.

Re: Old electrical fittings
 

For completeness' sake, the Wylex plugs were round, usually brown top and white underneath; the earth pin was tubular and central, the live & neutral rectangular, spaced either side of centre, and one of them (?) offset to avoid being reversed.

AFAIK there were 5a and 15a versions, and some could be stacked ad infinitum as there was a corresponding socket on the top.

We saw many of these, and also the D & S ones mentioned.

The universal "Fittall" plugs were quite common in the past - I'm sure I still have one somewhere.

Re: Old electrical fittings
 

Like this one? A bargain at eight shillings and thruppence!

Re: Old electrical fittings
 

The plugs I referred to obviously weren't Wylex then. The ones I remember were generally black, although white ones later became available. The pins were in triangular formation and for some reason the terminal screw of the earth pin protruded through the case.

Re: Old electrical fittings
 

The plugs with screw-in live pins you referred to were made by Dorman-Smith. The company still make switchgear. These plugs were used in the BBC up until at least the 1980s for technical power to prevent non-technical kit (vacuum cleaners etc.) being plugged into the circuits used for powering the program equipment as this could cause earth-neutral problems. Interestingly, the Wylex plugs were used, again by the BBC, as microphone connectors. This was, I believe, a hangover from the Savoy Hill days. I removed some from the BH TV studio many years ago.
Cheers
Brian

Re: Old electrical fittings
 

Dorman Smith had a factory at Workington. My auntie made plugs there! The DS plugs I remember (13A BS1363 flat-pin) had a 'fold-out' fuse-carrier, accessed by snapping the live-leg down and hinging the carrier outwards.

They also had (and this might tie in with Graham's observation about the earth-pin) a small rectangular gap in the top, right above the earth terminal. This was used as a locating point for the protrusion on the plug cover, but was of sufficient depth as to allow access to the earth pin with the plug cover firmly in place. Might this have been to run a separate earth-wire to a radio, say, without leading it in with the appliance cable?

We use Walsall-gauge stuff with the orientation of the pins reversed on the bays at Skelton transmitting station, but they were originally intended to provide a 'maintained' supply around the site. They are non-fused.

Re: Old electrical fittings
 

Hi All,
I seem to remember that Walsall and Britmac did a range of industrial plugs and sockets loosely based around the 13amp gauge with various combinations of pins such as: round earth pin with horizontal L&N pins, round earth pin with vertical L&N pins, 13amp gauge with round neutral pin, 13amp gauge with neutral pin at 45°, 13amp gauge with neutral pin at 45° & round live pin, etc., etc. And either DP fused, SP fused or unfused.
Wylex also made a 2amp plug that was like their 5amp one except that the earth tube had two flats. The idea was that lower rated (fused) plugs would fit higher rated sockets but not vice versa (that was until the L&N holes became wider through wear or damage.)
I'm sure this will make no sense whatsoever to our friends overseas.
And I thought it was only me that had a fascination with plugs & sockets since early childhood. I even brought a box of old plugs & sockets here with me. What would Freud have made of it all????
Cheers de Pete:thumbsup:

Re: Old electrical fittings
 

An understatement :) AU/NZ has had the same plugs since 1938!

Re: Old electrical fittings
 

Coo, didn't know that.
When did you guys introduce the 10amp plugs & sockets you use currently (sorry;D) in Oz & NZ ?
So you've had the Walsall, Britmac, DS & Wylex thing too? Fascinating. Are there any websites that cover the early electrical history of Oz & NZ ?
Cheers de Pete:thumbsup:

Re: Old electrical fittings
 

Yes interesting TF but I was thinking it was about time AU/NZ got some new ones-I know it's a long way but... :D. Seriously though, this is an interesting subject-especially some of the more exotic 30's bayonet adaptors designed to run the entire household off a light socket! I've got one or two items [inc plugs] that have quite a high quality bakelite finish as well. Perhaps they should be on display-easier to accomodate than radio sets. Dave W

Re: Old electrical fittings
 

I used to display an assortment of old electrical fittings along with my radios, etc. at steam traction rallies in the north west of England and our visitors were usually very interested in them. They enjoyed having a nostalge and showing their grandkids what they used to use in "The Old Days". One elderly gent invited me to take some old stock from his shop before it was cleared & sold. I got some ancient switch sockets that were unused & in their boxes. Also I obtained a neon shop window sign with a mint condition "Masonlite" 10Kv transformer (How I got it home, then out here is nothing short of miraculous). Once word gets round that you're is interested in this sort of stuff, it's amazing what folk find in their sheds for you!
Cheers de Pete:thumbsup:

Re: Old electrical fittings
 

The standard plug used today was introduced in 1938. My dad remembers some 'old' plugs floating around when he was younger - 40's and 50's - two round pins - but generally it was either the 3 pin plug we have now or operating off light fittings.

It has had some changes, most recently insulation on the phase and neutral pins, but the basic shape hasn't been changed for 70 years, so in living memory (mine at least) there hasn't really been much variety, just different brands/styles of the same plugs!